Name: Inter Faith Dialogue IIC 12 Mar 2007 — Maulana Wahiduddin Khan
Uploaded: 2007-01-01
Duration: 25 min 14 s
Channel: Maulana Wahiduddin Khan
Description: Read the full transcript of “Inter Faith Dialogue IIC 12 Mar 2007”, a lecture by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, with timestamps. Covers: Quranic verse on mutual respect.

0:09 tradition, but who has looked at with great sensitivity on Bhakti and the Sufi traditions? Tradition, but who has looked at with great sensitivity on Bhakti and the Sufi traditions?

0:17 we have Madhu Purnima Keshwar, scholar, activist who runs a very large and complex program on the study and research in Indic religions. We have Madhu Purnima Keshwar, scholar, activist who runs a very large and complex program on the study and research in Indic religions.

0:33 and we have Rakesh Bhatt, who brings an extraordinary sensibility, besides an excess which has become rare with us to Persian and Arabic, And we have Rakesh Bhatt, who brings an extraordinary sensibility, besides an excess which has become rare with us to Persian and Arabic,

0:49 with with

0:52 a sense of chainmenn and spontaneous devotion. He would read the Kalama and the Vishnu Sahasranama on the same d a sense of chainmenn and spontaneous devotion. He would read the Kalama and the Vishnu Sahasranama on the same d

1:02 ay, at the same time, maybe even possibly at the same moment. I really don't know. And all this, I entrust to the custody and care of historian Sudhir Chandra, who has spent a lifetime trying to see what the space and place of ambiguity, ambivalence has been, at least ay, at the same time, maybe even possibly at the same moment. I really don't know. And all this, I entrust to the custody and care of historian Sudhir Chandra, who has spent a lifetime trying to see what the space and place of ambiguity, ambivalence has been, at least

1:32 . And since he is a historian, he likes to mark periods very strongly in the last two, three hundred years, to the care of historian Sudhir Chandra, who cherishes the panel. . And since he is a historian, he likes to mark periods very strongly in the last two, three hundred years, to the care of historian Sudhir Chandra, who cherishes the panel.

1:47 friends, Friends,

1:50 after Suresh's opening remarks, and with a distinguished panel like this, someone who has been trying to grapple with ambiguity and ambivalence, the only thing such a person can do is to wait and see what the distinguished panelists have to say. after Suresh's opening remarks, and with a distinguished panel like this, someone who has been trying to grapple with ambiguity and ambivalence, the only thing such a person can do is to wait and see what the distinguished panelists have to say.

2:09 So may I request Maulana Wahiduddin Sahab to make his presentation? Maulana. So may I request Maulana Wahiduddin Sahab to make his presentation? Maulana.

2:24 Thank you very much. I think that the present theme is very important. Thank you very much. I think that the present theme is very important.

2:37 I can say that I have a special interest in this theme. I have participated in a number of this kind of dialogue in India as well as abroad. I can say that I have a special interest in this theme. I have participated in a number of this kind of dialogue in India as well as abroad.

2:55 Now, according to my study, I can say that the history of religious thought tells us a very interesting story in this regard. Now, according to my study, I can say that the history of religious thought tells us a very interesting story in this regard.

3:14 You know, in the olden days, when there were kings and emperors, at that time, there were religious persecutions everywhere in the world. You know, in the olden days, when there were kings and emperors, at that time, there were religious persecutions everywhere in the world.

3:31 So there were religious wars. But then we see a change in the history, and people became more and more interested in debate. So there were religious wars. But then we see a change in the history, and people became more and more interested in debate.

3:50 But again, I would like to say that debate is not very good But again, I would like to say that debate is not very good

3:57 , because you know, debate always generates hate. Hate. So I don't think that anything that generates hate is good for us. , because you know, debate always generates hate. Hate. So I don't think that anything that generates hate is good for us.

4:16 But fortunately, we are living now in the age of science But fortunately, we are living now in the age of science

4:22 . Scientific revolution has changed everything. And we can see a very obvious influence of science on religion. . Scientific revolution has changed everything. And we can see a very obvious influence of science on religion.

4:36 So now, under the influence of science, you see that everywhere in the world of religion, they speak of dialogue. So now, under the influence of science, you see that everywhere in the world of religion, they speak of dialogue.

4:50 Dialogue is a very recent phenomenon. In previous years, there were no such dialogues. So I appreciate this trend Dialogue is a very recent phenomenon. In previous years, there were no such dialogues. So I appreciate this trend

5:02 . And it is very good news for a man like myself, that dialogue is a very positive activity. . And it is very good news for a man like myself, that dialogue is a very positive activity.

5:19 Dialogue is an intellectual activity in a positive sense. So I welcome this initiative. Dialogue is an intellectual activity in a positive sense. So I welcome this initiative.

5:30 Now, coming on the theme, I would like to say that, first of all, we have to evolve a formula in this regard. Now, coming on the theme, I would like to say that, first of all, we have to evolve a formula in this regard.

5:49 According to my study, there are two basic formulas available among religious people. According to my study, there are two basic formulas available among religious people.

5:59 One that I may call is based on mutual recognition. One that I may call is based on mutual recognition.

6:08 By mutual recognition, I mean that I am true, you are also true. So both are true. This is mutual recognition. By mutual recognition, I mean that I am true, you are also true. So both are true. This is mutual recognition.

6:19 Then the second formula is based on mutual respect, that although maybe there is a difference between me and you, but we both would respect each other. Then the second formula is based on mutual respect, that although maybe there is a difference between me and you, but we both would respect each other.

6:37 So as far as myself is concerned, I believe that there are very deep kinds of differences among different religions. So as far as myself is concerned, I believe that there are very deep kinds of differences among different religions.

6:49 You cannot overlook these differences. So this kind of formula, which is based on mutual recognition, is not tenable You cannot overlook these differences. So this kind of formula, which is based on mutual recognition, is not tenable

7:00 . It is not feasible. You may talk in this term, but I don't think that you can convince the other party that there is no difference between me and you, because the difference is very, very clear. . It is not feasible. You may talk in this term, but I don't think that you can convince the other party that there is no difference between me and you, because the difference is very, very clear.

7:17 Very, very clear. So as far as my thinking is concerned, I believe in the formula of mutual respect. Very, very clear. So as far as my thinking is concerned, I believe in the formula of mutual respect.

7:30 And this is the Islamic formula. You know, in the Quran, there is a very relevant verse in these verses. And this is the Islamic formula. You know, in the Quran, there is a very relevant verse in these verses.

7:46 Lakum dinukum wali adin. These are Quranic verses. Lakum dinukum wali adin. It means that for you, your religion; for me, mine. Lakum dinukum wali adin. These are Quranic verses. Lakum dinukum wali adin. It means that for you, your religion; for me, mine.

8:00 For you, your religion; for me, mine. Generally, people speak of two periods of prophetic life. They say that in Mecca, the Prophet was not in power. For you, your religion; for me, mine. Generally, people speak of two periods of prophetic life. They say that in Mecca, the Prophet was not in power.

8:15 There was no political power with the party of the Prophet. But in Madinah, he became a political head. And the things were different from that, which was Mecca. There was no political power with the party of the Prophet. But in Madinah, he became a political head. And the things were different from that, which was Mecca.

8:29 But this is a fallacy. It is a misunderstanding. Because according to the scriptures, the same formula was applied in Madinah also, when the Prophet was in power. But this is a fallacy. It is a misunderstanding. Because according to the scriptures, the same formula was applied in Madinah also, when the Prophet was in power.

8:46 In Mecca, this verse was revealed to the Prophet that. In Mecca, this verse was revealed to the Prophet that.

8:53 Lakum dinukum wali adin. For you, your religion; for me, mine. And when he settled in Madinah, as a political head, he issued a declaration. Lakum dinukum wali adin. For you, your religion; for me, mine. And when he settled in Madinah, as a political head, he issued a declaration.

9:08 This declaration is called This declaration is called

9:13 Sahifatul Madinah. In Islamic history, you can read it Sahifatul Madinah. In Islamic history, you can read it

9:21 . You can find it in these verses. Sahifatul Madinah. Sahifatul Madinah means Madinah Declaration. In this declaration, in Madinah, the Prophet added this provision that at that time, you know, . You can find it in these verses. Sahifatul Madinah. Sahifatul Madinah means Madinah Declaration. In this declaration, in Madinah, the Prophet added this provision that at that time, you know,

9:45 it was Madinah was a multi-religious society. Multi-religious society. So the Prophet added this provision in that declaration that. it was Madinah was a multi-religious society. Multi-religious society. So the Prophet added this provision in that declaration that.

9:57 Lil Yahud dinuhum, walil Muslimin dinuhum. For Lil Yahud dinuhum, walil Muslimin dinuhum. For

10:03 you, their religion. For Muslims, their religion. The same formula was applied also in Madinah, where the Prophet was in power. you, their religion. For Muslims, their religion. The same formula was applied also in Madinah, where the Prophet was in power.

10:17 So I can say that the Islamic formula is based on this principle that follow one and respect all. So I can say that the Islamic formula is based on this principle that follow one and respect all.

10:25 Follow one and respect all. Follow one and respect all.

10:28 This is the Islamic formula about this situation. Then I would like to narrate a very relevant story, which throws more light on the subject. This is the Islamic formula about this situation. Then I would like to narrate a very relevant story, which throws more light on the subject.

10:46 The Prophet of Islam The Prophet of Islam

10:50 migrated to Mecca and settled in Madinah in 622 migrated to Mecca and settled in Madinah in 622

10:57 . At that time, Madinah was a multi-religious society. So some Jewish tribes were also living over there. . At that time, Madinah was a multi-religious society. So some Jewish tribes were also living over there.

11:07 So what happened? So what happened?

11:09 One day, the Prophet saw a funeral procession, funeral procession, passing through a street in Madinah. One day, the Prophet saw a funeral procession, funeral procession, passing through a street in Madinah.

11:21 The Prophet was seated at that time. On seeing the funeral, the Prophet stood up in respect. The Prophet was seated at that time. On seeing the funeral, the Prophet stood up in respect.

11:33 One of his companions said, "O Prophet, it was the funeral of a Jew, not a Muslim." One of his companions said, "O Prophet, it was the funeral of a Jew, not a Muslim."

11:41 The Prophet replied, "Alayshat Nafsan, was he not a human being? The Prophet replied, "Alayshat Nafsan, was he not a human being?

11:50 Here you can see that the Prophet was able to discover a commonality between himself and that non-Muslim. Here you can see that the Prophet was able to discover a commonality between himself and that non-Muslim.

12:00 This is the true Islamic spirit." Then I want to add one more point that although there are differences among different religions, it is a fact. This is the true Islamic spirit." Then I want to add one more point that although there are differences among different religions, it is a fact.

12:14 You cannot deny this fact. But difference is not an evil. The point is here. People generally think that difference is an evil. You cannot deny this fact. But difference is not an evil. The point is here. People generally think that difference is an evil.

12:24 No. Difference is a part of this is a part of nature. Part of nature. No. Difference is a part of this is a part of nature. Part of nature.

12:33 One scholar has rightly said that nature abhors uniformity. So everywhere there are differences. Everywhere there are differences. One scholar hasrightly said that nature abhors uniformity. So everywhere there are differences. Everywhere there are differences.

12:45 Nature is based on difference. Nature is based on difference.

12:49 So we have to learn the art of difference management rather than the art of eliminating the differences, because elimination of differences is not possible. So we have to learn the art of difference management rather than the art of eliminating the differences, because elimination of differences is not possible.

13:00 So we have to adopt the formula of difference management. Then there is another point. Difference is not an evil. So we have to adopt the formula of difference management. Then there is another point. Difference is not an evil.

13:11 Instead, it is a blessing. Blessing. Wh Instead, it is a blessing. Blessing. Wh

13:15 y? Because it is difference that creates challenge, that creates competition, that creates discussion, that creates dialogue. y? Because it is difference that creates challenge, that creates competition, that creates discussion, that creates dialogue.

13:27 And you know, only through dialogue and discussion, we can achieve the intellectual development. If there is no difference, there is no intellectual progress And you know, only through dialogue and discussion, we can achieve the intellectual development. If there is no difference, there is no intellectual progress

13:42 . So difference is a part of nature, because it is difference that is the only way to find the intellectual development. . So difference is a part of nature, because it is difference that is the only way to find the intellectual development.

13:57 Someone has rightly said that where everyone thinks alike, no one thinks very much. So difference is a blessing. Someone hasrightly said that where everyone thinks alike, no one thinks very much. So difference is a blessing.

14:09 Nature creates differences, creates competition, creates challenge, because it is this situation which leads to intellectual development, which leads to spiritual development. Nature creates differences, creates competition, creates challenge, because it is this situation which leads to intellectual development, which leads to spiritual development.

14:28 So Islam recognizes difference. And I can say that during the Prophet's life, there was a trialogue in Madinah. So Islam recognizes difference. And I can say that during the Prophet's life, there was a trialogue in Madinah.

14:40 Perhaps it was the first dialogue in the history. It was held in Madinah, in the very mosque that is called Madinah Mosque. Perhaps it was the first dialogue in the history. It was held in Madinah, in the very mosque that is called Madinah Mosque.

14:53 In this dialogue, partisans were three religions: Muslims, Christians, and Jews. In this dialogue, partisans were three religions: Muslims, Christians, and Jews.

15:04 So you can say that it was a dialogue. So three religions engaged in discussion in the mosque itself. So you can say that it was a dialogue. So three religions engaged in discussion in the mosque itself.

15:17 Although in history, more details are not available, so I cannot say what happened during this discussion. Although in history, more details are not available, so I cannot say what happened during this discussion.

15:28 But it is a fact. And our early books tell us that this dialogue was held in Madinah Mosque. But it is a fact. And our early books tell us that this dialogue was held in Madinah Mosque.

15:39 There is no doubt about it, There is no doubt about it,

15:41 although the details are not available in present books. Then I can say one more point. although the details are not available in present books. Then I can say one more point.

15:51 Nowadays, there is a widespread, Nowadays, there is a widespread,

15:56 I may call, rumor that Islam is a religion of violence. I read an article in The Times of London about Islam I may call, rumor that Islam is a religion of violence. I read an article in The Times of London about Islam

16:10 . The caption was, "A religion that . The caption was, "A religion that

16:18 sanctions violence." I think it is quite baseless sanctions violence." I think it is quite baseless

16:25 . I have studied Islam from its original sources, from Arabic books, Quran, Hadith, and everything. I can say that in Islam, peace is the rule and war is an exception. . I have studied Islam from its original sources, from Arabic books, Quran, Hadith, and everything. I can say that in Islam, peace is the rule and war is an exception.

16:46 I can say with conviction that in Islam, peace is the rule and war is an exception. There is a verse in the Quran, "As-Sulhu Khair." Reconciliation is the best I can say with conviction that in Islam, peace is the rule and war is an exception. There is a verse in the Quran, "As-Sulhu Khair." Reconciliation is the best

17:05 . It means that when there is controversy, you have to adopt the conciliatory course rather than the confrontational course. . It means that when there is controversy, you have to adopt the conciliatory course rather than the confrontational course.

17:18 So these are the true Islamic teachings. And there is a So these are the true Islamic teachings. And there is a

17:27 Hadith, "Wallahi la yu'minu." Hadith, "Wallahi la yu'minu."

17:38 It means that he is not a Mumin, he is not a true believer who creates problems for his neighbors. It means that he is not a Mumin, he is not a true believer who creates problems for his neighbors.

17:52 It is the true spirit of Islam. It is the true spirit of Islam.

17:56 So there are different kinds of problems: intellectual problems and violent problems. Any kind of problem is prohibited in Islam. So there are different kinds of problems: intellectual problems and violent problems. Any kind of problem is prohibited in Islam.

18:06 Any kind of problem, even intellectual problems. So this is the true spirit of Islam. Any kind of problem, even intellectual problems. So this is the true spirit of Islam.

18:14 There is a Hadith that, "Al-Muslimu man salaman naso bil lisanihi wa yadihi." A true Muslim is one by whose hands and tongue people are safe. There is a Hadith that, "Al-Muslimu man salaman naso bil lisanihi wa yadihi." A true Muslim is one by whose hands and tongue people are safe.

18:31 Here you can see the true spirit of Islam. Here you can see the true spirit of Islam.

18:34 According to this Hadith, a true Muslim is a peaceful member of his society. A true Muslim is a harmless member of society. According to this Hadith, a true Muslim is a peaceful member of his society. A true Muslim is a harmless member of society.

18:47 This is the true spirit of Islam. This is the true spirit of Islam.

18:52 Now I have a few words about Jihad, because Jihad is also very much related with this subject. Jihad literally means struggle. Now I have a few words about Jihad, because Jihad is also very much related with this subject. Jihad literally means struggle.

19:04 The Quran says, "Wajahid hum behijihadun kabira." In this verse, you can see that Jihad means peaceful struggle, no violence. The Quran says, "Wajahid hum behijihadun kabira." In this verse, you can see that Jihad means peaceful struggle, no violence.

19:16 Peaceful struggle. Then sometimes Jihad is used in the sense of war, but it is in an extended sense. Peaceful struggle. Then sometimes Jihad is used in the sense of war, but it is in an extended sense.

19:30 So now I would like to say that in Islam, only defensive war is permitted. Other than defense, no war is permitted in Islam. So now I would like to say that in Islam, only defensive war is permitted. Other than defense, no war is permitted in Islam.

19:42 Then there is a very well-established principle in Islam, "Ar-Rahilul Il Imam." It means that to declare a war is a prerogative of the head of the state. Then there is a very well-established principle in Islam, "Ar-Rahilul Il Imam." It means that to declare a war is a prerogative of the head of the state.

20:01 So according to this, any organization other than the state has theright to declare a So according to this, any organization other than the state has theright to declare a

20:11 war. So all these wars which you see everywhere in the world, in the Muslim world, all are unlawful, because everywhere Muslims are fighting, not the state. war. So all these wars which you see everywhere in the world, in the Muslim world, all are unlawful, because everywhere Muslims are fighting, not the state.

20:25 In some cases, there are some states that are involved secretly. But here I would like to say that secret war is also not permitted in Islam In some cases, there are some states that are involved secretly. But here I would like to say that secret war is also not permitted in Islam

20:37 . There is a very clear-cut injunction in the Quran, "Fambiz ilaihim awla sawa." It means that if you feel that there is some attack, some aggression from the other side, so you have to declare that I and you are at war from this date. . There is a very clear-cut injunction in the Quran, "Fambiz ilaihim awla sawa." It means that if you feel that there is some attack, some aggression from the other side, so you have to declare that I and you are at war from this date.

20:59 Without declaration, you cannot go to war. Without declaration, you cannot go to war.

21:03 So by these details, you can understand that in Islam, only defensive war is permitted. And all other wars like guerrilla war, aggressive war, So by these details, you can understand that in Islam, only defensive war is permitted. And all other wars like guerrilla war, aggressive war,

21:17 undeclared war, and proxy war, that is secret war, all these wars are unlawful in Islam. undeclared war, and proxy war, that is secret war, all these wars are unlawful in Islam.

21:26 In Islamic word, it is haram. H-A-R-A-M, haram. Haram means unlawful. In Islamic word, it is haram. H-A-R-A-M, haram. Haram means unlawful.

21:33 So I am saying this with conviction because I have studied Islam through its original sources, through Arabic language. So I am saying this with conviction because I have studied Islam through its original sources, through Arabic language.

21:43 And I can say that I have spent my whole life in studying Islam and also other religions. One more point. And I can say that I have spent my whole life in studying Islam and also other religions. One more point.

21:53 I have studied different religions. I found that there are two parts of of religion. This you can find in every religion. I have studied different religions. I found that there are two parts of of religion. This you can find in every religion.

22:04 One is its belief system, belief system. And the other one is its ethical base, moral teachings. One is its belief system, belief system. And the other one is its ethical base, moral teachings.

22:16 So I found that as far as the moral teachings are concerned, moral teachings mean social behavior. Moral teachings are ethical systems. So I found that as far as the moral teachings are concerned, moral teachings mean social behavior. Moral teachings are ethical systems.

22:28 So I found that there is no difference at all as far as the ethical system is concerned. There is no difference between this religion and that religion. So I found that there is no difference at all as far as the ethical system is concerned. There is no difference between this religion and that religion.

22:39 For example, there is a well-known principle in Hinduism that Vasudev Kutum. The same is you can find in y For example, there is a well-known principle in Hinduism that Vasudev Kutum. The same is you can find in y

22:53 ou can find in Islam. Al-Khalq wa Aalullah. Al-Khalq wa Aalullah means all humanity is God's progeny. ou can find in Islam. Al-Khalq wa Aalullah. Al-Khalq wa Aalullah means all humanity is God's progeny.

23:06 All men and women are members of God's family. The same you can find in Islam and the same you can find in Hinduism. All men and women are members of God's family. The same you can find in Islam and the same you can find in Hinduism.

23:17 But as far as the belief system is concerned, or in other words, theology is concerned, so in theology, there are differences. But as far as the belief system is concerned, or in other words, theology is concerned, so in theology, there are differences.

23:28 In practical behavior or in moral system or in ethical system, there is no difference at all. In practical behavior or in moral system or in ethical system, there is no difference at all.

23:40 Every religion teaches peace. Every religion teaches tolerance. Every religion teaches peace. Every religion teaches tolerance.

23:47 Every religion teaches truthfulness. So is the case of Islam. But as far as the theology is concerned, I can say there are differences. Every religion teaches truthfulness. So is the case of Islam. But as far as the theology is concerned, I can say there are differences.

24:00 It is a fact. So I would like to say that theology is not It is a fact. So I would like to say that theology is not

24:11 concerned of common people concerned of common people

24:13 . It is concerned of scholars. So leave it to scholars. Scholars may engage in discussion about the theology, theological differences. . It is concerned of scholars. So leave it to scholars. Scholars may engage in discussion about the theology, theological differences.

24:26 But the other side of religion, which is based on character and moral values, so there is no difference at all. But the other side of religion, which is based on character and moral values, so there is no difference at all.

24:38 So I can say that according to my study and my experience, the best formula is So I can say that according to my study and my experience, the best formula is

24:54 follow one and respect all. follow one and respect all.

24:56 This is my own This is my own

25:03 formula. And my whole life is based on this formula. So I have adopted this formula, follow one and respect all. formula. And my whole life is based on this formula. So I have adopted this formula, follow one and respect all.

25:13 Thank you. Thank you.

Inter Faith Dialogue IIC 12 Mar 2007 - Maulana Wahiduddin Khan