Organ Donation Day

Name: Organ Donation Day — Maulana Wahiduddin Khan
Duration: 50 min 2 s
Channel: Maulana Wahiduddin Khan
Description: Read the full transcript of “Organ Donation Day”, a lecture by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, with timestamps. Covers: Islam does not oppose organ donation.

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9 clips from this lecture

4:46 Islam does not oppose organ donation Short
4:46 Islamic perspective: personal opinion vs charity Medium
4:46 Islamic teachings on charity and organ donation Long
4:46 Full Islamic argument for organ donation Long
5:17 All religions emphasize charity; organ donation noblest Medium
7:09 Giving as a societal duty Short
7:09 Organ donation as continuous charity (sadaqah jariyah) Medium
8:11 No restriction, law of necessity allows organ donation Medium
8:35 Law of necessity in organ donation Short

Machine transcription. These are his recorded words, written down by software and aligned to the recording second by second — so a line may carry a misheard word. Tap any timestamp to hear him say it. Permanent link to this transcript.

0:00 To this discussion on organ donation. As part of the Times of India's 175-year celebrations, ILEAD India brings you the organ donation campaign to create greater public awareness on the subject. August 6 is being designated as Organ Donation Day, uh, to create greater buzz among the public and to create more awareness. To this discussion on organ donation. As part of the Times of India's 175-year celebrations, ILEAD India brings you the organ donation campaign to create greater public awareness on the subject. August 6 is being designated as Organ Donation Day, uh, to create greater buzz among the public and to create more awareness.
0:23 And so we have here with us, uh, a panel, um, comprising of, uh, spiritual religious leaders, medical And so we have here with us, uh, a panel, um, comprising of, uh, spiritual religious leaders, medical
0:29 experts, a psychologist, as well as a person who, uh, from a family of an organ donor and experts, a psychologist, as well as a person who, uh, from a family of an organ donor and
0:35 a recipient, and, uh, also an NGO. a recipient, and, uh, also an NGO.
0:42 And, um, we will discuss here all the, um, myths and the fears and the challenges being faced And, um, we will discuss here all the, um, myths and the fears and the challenges being faced
0:48 with regard to organ donation. with regard to organ donation.
0:55 So, um, here we have, um, uh, Maulana Wahiduddin Khan. So, um, here we have, um, uh, Maulana Wahiduddin Khan.
1:01 He's the an Islamic scholar, uh, peace promoter, and founder of the Center for Peace and Spirituality International. He's the an Islamic scholar, uh, peace promoter, and founder of the Center for Peace and Spirituality International.
1:08 Then we have, um, Ezekiel Isaac Malekar, priest of the Juda Hayam Synagogue, Delhi. Then we have, um, Ezekiel Isaac Malekar, priest of the Juda Hayam Synagogue, Delhi.
1:13 And then we have, uh, Dr. And then we have, uh, Dr.
1:19 Ramdi Prey, consultant, liver transplantation, Apollo Hospitals, Delhi. Ramdi Prey, consultant, liver transplantation, Apollo Hospitals, Delhi.
1:25 Dr., uh, Pulkit Sharma, psychologist, uh, who practices in Delhi. Dr., uh, Pulkit Sharma, psychologist, uh, who practices in Delhi.
1:30 And Pallavi Kumar, uh, is executive director of the NGO Mohan Foundation, which has done sterling work in And Pallavi Kumar, uh, is executive director of the NGO Mohan Foundation, which has done sterling work in
1:36 creating awareness and training transplant coordinators. creating awareness and training transplant coordinators.
1:42 Uh, Mohan Foundation was founded by Dr. Uh, Mohan Foundation was founded by Dr.
1:47 Sunil Shroff of Chennai in order to create greater awareness on this issue. Sunil Shroff of Chennai in order to create greater awareness on this issue.
1:53 Uh, but before we start the, uh, discussion, um, oh, let me also introduce to you, uh, Kanupriya, Uh, but before we start the, uh, discussion, um, oh, let me also introduce to you, uh, Kanupriya,
1:59 who is the mother of a child donor. who is the mother of a child donor.
2:04 Um, and also we have a f the Roy family here with us, um, uh, whose, uh, child Um, and also we have a f the Roy family here with us, um, uh, whose, uh, child
2:10 is the recipient of a don uh, uh, an organ. is the recipient of a don uh, uh, an organ.
2:16 And, uh, before we start the discussion, um, we will now, um, play the video message from, uh, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, the founder of the Art of Living Foundation, who is currently out of the country but who is now going to speak to us via, uh, video stream. And, uh, before we start the discussion, um, we will now, um, play the video message from, uh, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, the founder of the Art of Living Foundation, who is currently out of the country but who is now going to speak to us via, uh, video stream.
2:35 angdaan karna bharat ke liye koi nai cheez nahi hai. अंगदान करना भारत के लिए कोई नई चीज़ नहीं है।
2:40 hamare puranon mein, hamare his hissa mein bhara pada hai, log apna angdaan kiya karte the. हमारे पुराणों में, हमारे हिस् इतिहास में भरा पड़ा है, लोग अपना अंगदान किया करते थे।
2:46 kabhi-kabhi man mein yeh shanka aata hai, koi apna organ donation kar de to use mukti ho paegi, कभी-कभी मन में यह शंका आता है, कोई अपना ऑर्गन डोनेशन कर दे तो उसे मुक्ति हो पाएगी,
2:52 nahin ho paegi. नहीं हो पाएगी।
2:58 aur aise bhi bhayam logon mein hai ki koi aankh daan kar denge to phir aankh phir dubara और ऐसे भी भयम लोगों में है कि कोई आँख दान कर देंगे तो फिर आँख फिर दुबारा
3:04 andhe ban ke ban aana padega doosre janm mein. अंधे बन के बन आना पड़ेगा दूसरे जन्म में।
3:10 yeh sab galatfehmi hai. ये सब गलतफहमी है।
3:16 aap beshak nihsankoch apna angdaan kar sakte hain, organ donation kar sakte hain. आप बेशक निःसंकोच अपना अंगदान कर सकते हैं, ऑर्गन डोनेशन कर सकते हैं।
3:21 ismein koi kshati nahin hogi, kisi tarah se pragati mein baadha nahin hai. इसमें कोई क्षति नहीं होगी, किसी तरह से प्रगति में बाधा नहीं है।
3:27 mukti milne ke liye ismein koi kisi tarah ka avrodh bhi nahin hai. मुक्ति मिलने के लिए इसमें कोई किसी तरह का अवरोध भी नहीं है।
3:33 isliye hum sab log beshak apna angdaan kar sakte hain. इसलिए हम सब लोग बेशक अपना अंगदान कर सकते हैं।
3:39 angdaan kijiye, usse aur punya milega taaki hum aur logon ke jeevan mein ke liye upyogi banenge. अंगदान कीजिए, उससे और पुण्य मिलेगा ताकि हम और लोगों के जीवन में के लिए उपयोगी बनेंगे।
3:45 hamara jeevan ka rag-rag yadi doosron ke kaam aa jaye, isse badhiya pooja koi nahin hai, isse shreshth हमारा जीवन का रग-रग यदि दूसरों के काम आ जाए, इससे बढ़िया पूजा कोई नहीं है, इससे श्रेष्ठ
3:51 koi aur karm nahin hai. कोई और कर्म नहीं है।
3:57 chaliye, hum sab log angdaan karne mein aage badhein. jai hind. चलिए, हम सब लोग अंगदान करने में आगे बढ़ें। जय हिंद।
4:03 Uh, before we begin the discussion, sorry, I made a mistake. I forgot to introduce Dr. Avinish Seth, who is the head of Fortis Organ Retrieval and Transplant, uh, FORT, Delhi. Uh, Dr. Ramdi Prey is not here with us. Uh, before we begin the discussion, sorry, I made a mistake. I forgot to introduce Dr. Avinish Seth, who is the head of Fortis Organ Retrieval and Transplant, uh, FORT, Delhi. Uh, Dr. Ramdi Prey is not here with us.
4:19 Um, my first question is to Maulana Saheb, uh, because, uh, normally, uh, where organ donation is concerned, there are a lot of misconceptions regarding what religious scriptures say, and especially so in the case of Islam. So, uh, Maulana ji, what would you say is the Islamic perspective on organ donation? Why? Um, my first question is to Maulana Saheb, uh, because, uh, normally, uh, where organ donation is concerned, there are a lot of misconceptions regarding what religious scriptures say, and especially so in the case of Islam. So, uh, Maulana ji, what would you say is the Islamic perspective on organ donation? Why?
4:46 I know that, uh, there are some Muslims who are against the organ donation, but it I kn I know that, uh, there are some Muslims who are against the organ donation, but it
4:52 is their personal opinion. is their personal opinion.
4:58 it is not the islamic teachings. It is not the Islamic teachings.
5:04 you have to differentiate between personal opinion and the correct teaching of the religion that is based on You have to differentiate between personal opinion and the correct teaching of the religion that is based on
5:10 quran and hadith. Quran and Hadith.
5:17 i can say that all the religions, including islam, emphasize on charity. I can say that all the religions, including Islam, emphasize on charity.
5:24 it is a well-known fact. It is a well-known fact.
5:32 and i can say that organ donation is the noblest way of charity. And I can say that organ donation is the noblest way of charity.
5:39 you know, in charity, we donate in the in organ donation, we donate a living item, living item, You know, in charity, we donate in the in organ donation, we donate a living item, living item,
5:47 while other kinds of donation are based on non-living items. while other kinds of donation are based on non-living items.
5:54 so i can say that organ donation is the very unique kind of charity, unique kind of charity. So I can say that organ donation is the very unique kind of charity, unique kind of charity.
6:02 and you know that organ cannot be made in any industry or in factory. And you know that organ cannot be made in any industry or in factory.
6:09 Organ can be made only in a natural factory. Organ can be made only in a natural factory.
6:17 It's, it's, it's so unique. It's, it's, it's so unique.
6:24 So it is a very unique kind of charity to give your some organ to, to, to your fellow being. So it is a very unique kind of charity to give your some organ to, to, to your fellow being.
6:32 So Maulana Saheb, is there any specific, uh, injunction in the Quran which says that you should give of yourself, which can be taken to mean that you should be able to also donate your organs? According to my knowledge, there is no restriction, no restriction at all. So Maulana Saheb, is there any specific, uh, injunction in the Quran which says that you should give of yourself, which can be taken to mean that you should be able to also donate your organs? According to my knowledge, there is no restriction, no restriction at all.
6:52 There is a, uh, verse in the Quran, "Wamma mayan faunas fempus fillers." It means that giving is the best, hmm, best, uh, deed in Islam. Giving is good. There is a, uh, verse in the Quran, "Wamma mayan faunas fempus fillers." It means that giving is the best, hmm, best, uh, deed in Islam. Giving is good.
7:09 If you are living in a society, you have to live as a giving member of that society. If you are living in a society, you have to live as a giving member of that society.
7:15 So all kinds of giving, including organ donation, is sadaqah. So all kinds of giving, including organ donation, is sadaqah.
7:21 Sadaqah means, um, charity. Sadaqah means, um, charity.
7:27 Then I would say that there is a concept in Islam that is sadaqah jariyah. Then I would say that there is a concept in Islam that is sadaqah jariyah.
7:33 Sadaqah jariyah means continuous charity. Sadaqah jariyah means continuous charity.
7:39 So when you donate some organ like eye, then you are giving your eye to a person that So when you donate some organ like eye, then you are giving your eye to a person that
7:45 is, uh, that will live after your death. is, uh, that will live after your death.
7:52 It means that it is continuous charity. You've got a good idea that you are, any, donating something to, to other, even you are when you are not in this world. So it is. Any. Something that outlives you. Yes. It is very good. It means that it is continuous charity. You've got a good idea that you are, any, donating something to, to other, even you are when you are not in this world. So it is. Any. Something that outlives you. Yes. It is very good.
8:11 So in Islam, I don't know any, uh, uh, pri any teaching which restricts this kind of donation. Then there is a very important, you know, any, organ donation is a very decent phenomenon. Any, it is a, uh, invention of modern medical science. So in Islam, I don't know any, uh, uh, pri any teaching which restricts this kind of donation. Then there is a very important, you know, any, organ donation is a very decent phenomenon. Any, it is a, uh, invention of modern medical science.
8:35 Before modern medical science, there was no such donation. And there is a ver there is a very important principle in Islam that is, "Az-zururat tobihul mahzurat." It is based on law of necessity. It means that necessity makes, uh, unlawful lawful. Before modern medical science, there was no such donation. And there is a ver there is a very important principle in Islam that is, "Az-zururat tobihul mahzurat." It is based on law of necessity. It means that necessity makes, uh, unlawful lawful.
9:05 So even if it, i-if someone says that it is unlawful in Islam, so I would say that according to law of necessity, you have to make it lawful. Although there is no clear indication in Islam, any teaching in Quran and Hadith that forbids organ donation. So even if it, i-if someone says that it is unlawful in Islam, so I would say that according to law of necessity, you have to make it lawful. Although there is no clear indication in Islam, any teaching in Quran and Hadith that forbids organ donation.
9:26 Thank you, Maulana Saheb. You have made that very clear. May I now ask you, Rabi, uh, Rabbi, to, um, explain to us the what does Judaism say about organ donation? Uh, you know, in the Judaism, you are aware that there are 613 commandments in the Bible, Old Testament. Thank you, Maulana Saheb. You have made that very clear. May I now ask you, Rabi, uh, Rabbi, to, um, explain to us the what does Judaism say about organ donation? Uh, you know, in the Judaism, you are aware that there are 613 commandments in the Bible, Old Testament.
9:47 And, uh, the most important commandment in the Bible is in the book of Leviticus, chapter 19, verse And, uh, the most important commandment in the Bible is in the book of Leviticus, chapter 19, verse
9:53 18, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Means the Jews have been commanded to show love, to 18, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Means the Jews have been commanded to show love, to
10:00 demonstrate love for God as well as for fellow men. demonstrate love for God as well as for fellow men.
10:07 And the best act in the Judaism is to save a life because according to Judaism, life is And the best act in the Judaism is to save a life because according to Judaism, life is
10:14 considered very sacred. considered very sacred.
10:21 And therefore, if we could save someone's life transgating the, uh, uh, some of the commandments, it is And therefore, if we could save someone's life transgating the, uh, uh, some of the commandments, it is
10:27 a very, very noble act. a very, very noble act.
10:33 But of course, there is a misconception in our minds that Judaism prohibits, uh, uh, organ donations. No. But of course, there is a misconception in our minds that Judaism prohibits, uh, uh, organ donations. No.
10:39 At the biblical time, this concept was not, uh, in the biblical time because it was just experimental, At the biblical time, this concept was not, uh, in the biblical time because it was just experimental,
10:46 you know, in the, uh, 50 years ago. you know, in the, uh, 50 years ago.
10:52 And, uh, they thought that it could endanger our life. And, uh, they thought that it could endanger our life.
10:58 But now these, uh, medical procedures have proved that it is a very simplified method if you could But now these, uh, medical procedures have proved that it is a very simplified method if you could
11:05 org give organ and save the life. org give organ and save the life.
11:11 And therefore, it is said in Judaism, even in Talmud, it is said, "If you save a life, And therefore, it is said in Judaism, even in Talmud, it is said, "If you save a life,
11:17 it is a mitzvah, pikoe nefesh." It is the highest spiritual and religious virtue in Judaism. it is a mitzvah, pikoe nefesh." It is the highest spiritual and religious virtue in Judaism.
11:24 So there is no other thing. So there is absolutely no, uh, this thing that, in fact, Judaism encourages, supports the concept of organ donations and the transplant, transplantation. So there is no other thing. So there is absolutely no, uh, this thing that, in fact, Judaism encourages, supports the concept of organ donations and the transplant, transplantation.
11:38 Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.
11:44 So, uh, now we've had the, um, religious, uh, perspective given by, um, Maulana Saheb and the Rabbi. So, uh, now we've had the, um, religious, uh, perspective given by, um, Maulana Saheb and the Rabbi.
11:50 And, uh, we do know that, um, organ donation is also, uh, ha-has a lot of faces a And, uh, we do know that, um, organ donation is also, uh, ha-has a lot of faces a
11:56 lot of challenges, especially, um, psychological, medical, and also, um, like, as, uh, as being part of, uh, lot of challenges, especially, um, psychological, medical, and also, um, like, as, uh, as being part of, uh,
12:02 Mohan Foundation as an, um, NGO might also face, uh, certain other peculiar problems. Mohan Foundation as an, um, NGO might also face, uh, certain other peculiar problems.
12:08 So Pallavi, would you like to say something about your experience with the Mohan Foundation? So Pallavi, would you like to say something about your experience with the Mohan Foundation?
12:14 See, w as an organization, of course, we work very passionately to create awareness, uh, on organ donation. And the more we are going out there and the more we are talking to people, I, I believe that the root cause of the problem is lack of awareness. See, w as an organization, of course, we work very passionately to create awareness, uh, on organ donation. And the more we are going out there and the more we are talking to people, I, I believe that the root cause of the problem is lack of awareness.
12:30 There is a r minor very small group of people who, who may have religious objections. Let me be very honest here. The root cause is how where has the average person on the road given the option to be an organ donor or not? Where has the average person ever been asked, "Do you want to be an organ donor or not? " You know? So the whole, the whole question of whether he agrees or disagrees is, is pretty redundant right now. There is a r minor very small group of people who, who may have religious objections. Let me be very honest here. The root cause is how where has the average person on the road given the option to be an organ donor or not? Where has the average person ever been asked, "Do you want to be an organ donor or not? " You know? So the whole, the whole question of whether he agrees or disagrees is, is pretty redundant right now.
12:56 Most often, the very first time the person is asked to take the decision, decision is w-when somebody like Kanupriya must have, you know, when they just lost somebody. You know, so they're here, they are, uh, dealing with the death of a loved one, and suddenly they are thrust with this whole new difficult decision of having to donate the or whether they want to donate the organs. Most often, the very first time the person is asked to take the decision, decision is w-when somebody like Kanupriya must have, you know, when they just lost somebody. You know, so they're here, they are, uh, dealing with the death of a loved one, and suddenly they are thrust with this whole new difficult decision of having to donate the or whether they want to donate the organs.
13:14 The idea is that this kind of, uh, discussion takes place in families, in households, otherwise in normal circumstances. So people have had the chance to kind of mull over this issue, had the chance to, uh, you know, decide the merits or the demerits of whether they want to be organ donors so that they're not i having to take a decision in, in very challenged situations like those. So may I then raise one question which is, uh, which any of you can choose to answer? Like, should we then have something like presumed consent? The idea is that this kind of, uh, discussion takes place in families, in households, otherwise in normal circumstances. So people have had the chance to kind of mull over this issue, had the chance to, uh, you know, decide the merits or the demerits of whether they want to be organ donors so that they're not i having to take a decision in, in very challenged situations like those. So may I then raise one question which is, uh, which any of you can choose to answer? Like, should we then have something like presumed consent?
13:43 Like, when a person, uh, dies, uh, should it be presumed that, yes, his organs can be denot his or her organs can be d-donated? Or like how we have in India, do we have to then, uh, all be, uh, uh, card-carrying donors, uh, in order for such a decision to be taken? Would you like to answer that, Dr. Yes, um. Dr. Avinish Seth? Like, when a person, uh, dies, uh, should it be presumed that, yes, his organs can be denot his or her organs can be d-donated? Or like how we have in India, do we have to then, uh, all be, uh, uh, card-carrying donors, uh, in order for such a decision to be taken? Would you like to answer that, Dr. Yes, um. Dr. Avinish Seth?
14:05 See, uh, the problem is that in our country, organ donation so far has had very negative connotations. So those of us who work in organ donation, we always feel that if you have a law like you have in Israel or like you have in, um. Yeah. Spain. Spain, Austria. Where, yes. Yeah. Where you can just have to, you know, there isn't compulsorily you have to opt in unless you opt out. See, uh, the problem is that in our country, organ donation so far has had very negative connotations. So those of us who work in organ donation, we always feel that if you have a law like you have in Israel or like you have in, um. Yeah. Spain. Spain, Austria. Where, yes. Yeah. Where you can just have to, you know, there isn't compulsorily you have to opt in unless you opt out.
14:28 So that kind of a thing is not going to work in our country because we have a very vast country, and our command and control is not very good. So with the kind of negative things that have been associated with the organ donation, this may be a bit too, you know, too radical to do right now. So that kind of a thing is not going to work in our country because we have a very vast country, and our command and control is not very good. So with the kind of negative things that have been associated with the organ donation, this may be a bit too, you know, too radical to do right now.
14:43 So we would say I would just agree with Pallavi that awareness is the key to the whole thing. And right from school level, we need to talk about awareness at various, uh, fora. And also what happens is what we find in our day-to-day working, the most difficult concept for the family to understand, again because of lack of awareness, is the concept of brain death. Mm-hmm. So we would say I would just agree with Pallavi that awareness is the key to the whole thing. And right from school level, we need to talk about awareness at various, uh, fora. And also what happens is what we find in our day-to-day working, the most difficult concept for the family to understand, again because of lack of awareness, is the concept of brain death. Mm-hmm.
15:06 When you explain to somebody in the intensive care unit that, "Look, there's been a head injury, and your loved one is no more. There is brain death." And at the same time, they're watching on the monitor that the heart is still beating. Mm-hmm. It is very difficult for people who are hearing of this concept for the first time to come to terms with the fact that heart is still beating, but my loved one is dead. So again, it comes to education, awareness, and getting the basics right. Right. When you explain to somebody in the intensive care unit that, "Look, there's been a head injury, and your loved one is no more. There is brain death." And at the same time, they're watching on the monitor that the heart is still beating. Mm-hmm. It is very difficult for people who are hearing of this concept for the first time to come to terms with the fact that heart is still beating, but my loved one is dead. So again, it comes to education, awareness, and getting the basics right. Right.
15:36 And also, I'd like to add here, you know, because, uh, I think one important aspect of awareness is that, you know, that we need to also educate people about and take care of, you know, various emotional factors. Like, uh, you know, if we are talking from the side of the donor, you know, because many people, they do no one really has an experience of death, or no one knows, you know, how is it going to be when they die. And people have grown up identifying their self with their body, you know, when they see their image in the mirror every day. And also, I'd like to add here, you know, because, uh, I think one important aspect of awareness is that, you know, that we need to also educate people about and take care of, you know, various emotional factors. Like, uh, you know, if we are talking from the side of the donor, you know, because many people, they do no one really has an experience of death, or no one knows, you know, how is it going to be when they die. And people have grown up identifying their self with their body, you know, when they see their image in the mirror every day.
16:03 So they identify the self with the body. So they feel that, you know, uh, you know, they have this fantasy that when I'll die, I'll be going w-with this form. And that's why, you know, many of them are very resistant to this idea, you know, that my body will be cut or something like that, you know? So they identify the self with the body. So they feel that, you know, uh, you know, they have this fantasy that when I'll die, I'll be going w-with this form. And that's why, you know, many of them are very resistant to this idea, you know, that my body will be cut or something like that, you know?
16:18 So that's one reason from the side of the donor. From the side of the family, I feel that, uh, uh, you know, as, uh, you know, my, uh, colleague was saying, that, that they somewhere have a lot of emotional attachment to the person. So when the person is brain dead, or even when the person is dead, they are still seeing the person, you know, like that. So that's one reason from the side of the donor. From the side of the family, I feel that, uh, uh, you know, as, uh, you know, my, uh, colleague was saying, that, that they somewhere have a lot of emotional attachment to the person. So when the person is brain dead, or even when the person is dead, they are still seeing the person, you know, like that.
16:39 And they feel that an act of, you know, uh, many people have shared that, you know, that an act of organ, uh, donation would involve, you know, uh, cutting and, uh, mutilating the body. And they feel it as a form of violence, you know? So, uh, these reasons need to be taken care of, and people. But, but, but we do have a wonderful example here of Kanupriya. Yes. She is the mother of, uh, a little child who, uh, did suffer brain death. And they feel that an act of, you know, uh, many people have shared that, you know, that an act of organ, uh, donation would involve, you know, uh, cutting and, uh, mutilating the body. And they feel it as a form of violence, you know? So, uh, these reasons need to be taken care of, and people. But, but, but we do have a wonderful example here of Kanupriya. Yes. She is the mother of, uh, a little child who, uh, did suffer brain death.
17:04 And she had the courage and the vision to be able to, uh, give up her little girl's body up for organ donation. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Actually, it was not that difficult for me because, uh, we were prepared for it. And she had the courage and the vision to be able to, uh, give up her little girl's body up for organ donation. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Actually, it was not that difficult for me because, uh, we were prepared for it.
17:22 Uh, as I told you before, that we have, uh, read some article in Times of India one year before, I think, that one father, um, uh, who donated, uh, organs of his son. So when doctor was saying us that, uh, she's, uh, going to be brain dead person in few days. And, and your daughter was how old? Uh, as I told you before, that we have, uh, read some article in Times of India one year before, I think, that one father, um, uh, who donated, uh, organs of his son. So when doctor was saying us that, uh, she's, uh, going to be brain dead person in few days. And, and your daughter was how old?
17:47 Yeah. She was four and a half years that time. And she her brain was damaged, actually, for 90% damaged for four years. Since, uh, she had problems with birth? Since birth. Yes. Since, since birth. Uh, just after 15 days of her age, uh, she was declared with men-meningitis. Then she developed, uh, ventriculitis and hydrocephalus. Then she passed through four brain surgeries in two years only. Yeah. She was four and a half years that time. And she her brain was damaged, actually, for 90% damaged for four years. Since, uh, she had problems with birth? Since birth. Yes. Since, since birth. Uh, just after 15 days of her age, uh, she was declared with men-meningitis. Then she developed, uh, ventriculitis and hydrocephalus. Then she passed through four brain surgeries in two years only.
18:09 And we put her on every therapy we could do, even stem cells and everything we have tried for her, which was available that time. But, um, uh, after just last shunt operation in Ames, doctor told us that, uh, now she's not going to survive. In 15 days, we put her in Sitaram Bhartiya Hospital. And then they told just after putting her, she went into coma. And, uh, doctor told us about her condition. So. And we put her on every therapy we could do, even stem cells and everything we have tried for her, which was available that time. But, um, uh, after just last shunt operation in Ames, doctor told us that, uh, now she's not going to survive. In 15 days, we put her in Sitaram Bhartiya Hospital. And then they told just after putting her, she went into coma. And, uh, doctor told us about her condition. So.
18:39 He explained to you that she was brain dead? Yes. Yes. Yes. And, uh, we were making ourselves ready for that, "Okay, she's not going to be with us anymore." Did the entire family agree with your decision to? Actually, it was, uh, just, uh, in the last few days when we were we were just struggling with the fact that we need to put her off from ventilator. Pull out of ventilator? We were not we were not ready for that. Mm-hmm. He explained to you that she was brain dead? Yes. Yes. Yes. And, uh, we were making ourselves ready for that, "Okay, she's not going to be with us anymore." Did the entire family agree with your decision to? Actually, it was, uh, just, uh, in the last few days when we were we were just struggling with the fact that we need to put her off from ventilator. Pull out of ventilator? We were not we were not ready for that. Mm-hmm.
19:07 But doctor told us that, uh, no, she's brain dead. So, uh, they went through brain, uh, brain death procedures. Yeah. And, uh, then they told us, uh, that, "Are you going to, uh, uh are you ready for the, uh, organ donation? " And there was no problem for with us because we were ready. And, uh, we told them that, "Okay, how many organs you want, you take." So, uh. But doctor told us that, uh, no, she's brain dead. So, uh, they went through brain, uh, brain death procedures. Yeah. And, uh, then they told us, uh, that, "Are you going to, uh, uh are you ready for the, uh, organ donation? " And there was no problem for with us because we were ready. And, uh, we told them that, "Okay, how many organs you want, you take." So, uh.
19:37 I want them just to be utilized. That's my only concern. If they, they will be utilized, they will save the life of people, then it I'm very happy. If not, then it's okay. And, and you did mention that you came to know that five people got hospitalized. Yes. After one year in Apollo Hospital, they told us that they were five. Five years? Yes. Yes. Because of your little daughter? Yes, Rabbi. You want to say? I want them just to be utilized. That's my only concern. If they, they will be utilized, they will save the life of people, then it I'm very happy. If not, then it's okay. And, and you did mention that you came to know that five people got hospitalized. Yes. After one year in Apollo Hospital, they told us that they were five. Five years? Yes. Yes. Because of your little daughter? Yes, Rabbi. You want to say?
20:01 You know, I would like to add that, uh, in Israel, uh, recently on the 28th of, uh, June, my aunt, Mrs. Diana Benjamin, she passed away. You know, I would like to add that, uh, in Israel, uh, recently on the 28th of, uh, June, my aunt, Mrs. Diana Benjamin, she passed away.
20:12 And according to her will, she says, "My entire body has to be given to the science for legitimate medical purposes." So the entire body was given to the hospital for the medical purpose. And in as you have rightly said, in Israel, there is a very, very, uh, you know, great awareness. And because in Israel and other countries, we discuss about this topic openly. In India, what happened? We want to discuss this within the. Yeah. And according to her will, she says, "My entire body has to be given to the science for legitimate medical purposes." So the entire body was given to the hospital for the medical purpose. And in as you have rightly said, in Israel, there is a very, very, uh, you know, great awareness. And because in Israel and other countries, we discuss about this topic openly. In India, what happened? We want to discuss this within the. Yeah.
20:42 Yeah. So, you know, as you have suggested in schools and colleges, and in Israel, there are 70,000, you know, the donors who are, means, prepared to donate their organs. 70,000. Whereas in India, last year, there were only 110 donors. And there are w a lack on 50,000, uh, you know, the patients are waiting for the organs to survive. So unless and until we create this awareness. Yes. Yeah. So, you know, as you have suggested in schools and colleges, and in Israel, there are 70,000, you know, the donors who are, means, prepared to donate their organs. 70,000. Whereas in India, last year, there were only 110 donors. And there are w a lack on 50,000, uh, you know, the patients are waiting for the organs to survive. So unless and until we create this awareness. Yes.
21:11 And the, uh, second point which we have raised, they have that presumed consent. If the brain is dead, you know, uh, also there's a heart beating and all, that is only, uh, he's terminally ill. Only clinically, he has been kept alive. So presumed, uh, this thing, uh, uh, presumed consent. And they have the non-medical approach. One is the medical approach. One is the non-medical approach. And the, uh, second point which we have raised, they have that presumed consent. If the brain is dead, you know, uh, also there's a heart beating and all, that is only, uh, he's terminally ill. Only clinically, he has been kept alive. So presumed, uh, this thing, uh, uh, presumed consent. And they have the non-medical approach. One is the medical approach. One is the non-medical approach.
21:36 And, uh, you know, that there are a, you know, small countries, not even 8 million people, and there are more than 70,000 donors. Mm-hmm. Willing to. Mm-hmm. Because to save someone's life is the highest, you know, reason. This is you're saying the 70,000 donors, despite the fact that it's all this is already there. Presumed consent is already there. And not only that, but. They just want to make sure. And, uh, you know, that there are a, you know, small countries, not even 8 million people, and there are more than 70,000 donors. Mm-hmm. Willing to. Mm-hmm. Because to save someone's life is the highest, you know, reason. This is you're saying the 70,000 donors, despite the fact that it's all this is already there. Presumed consent is already there. And not only that, but. They just want to make sure.
21:58 You know, recently, uh, uh, you know, in Israel, the Arabs and Jews, the Christians, they live together. Whether the Arab boy or Christian, uh, Jewish girl, if somebody's body's to be used. Mm-hmm. They try to have the create that bridge. Mm-hmm. To peace. Okay. That's wonderful. That is awareness has to be created. And unfortunately, in India, we religious leaders has to do something and tell our own congregation that, "Look here." Mm-hmm. You know, recently, uh, uh, you know, in Israel, the Arabs and Jews, the Christians, they live together. Whether the Arab boy or Christian, uh, Jewish girl, if somebody's body's to be used. Mm-hmm. They try to have the create that bridge. Mm-hmm. To peace. Okay. That's wonderful. That is awareness has to be created. And unfortunately, in India, we religious leaders has to do something and tell our own congregation that, "Look here." Mm-hmm.
22:26 That it is, uh because they have the misconception in their minds that, uh, giving organs, uh, or donating organs is against their religious beliefs. No, as the Maulana Ji said. Mm-hmm. It is, you know, all religious. What he said about the charity, we talk in Judaism about sadaqah. Mm-hmm. So it is a very, very most, uh, you know, the pious deed which you could do. That it is, uh because they have the misconception in their minds that, uh, giving organs, uh, or donating organs is against their religious beliefs. No, as the Maulana Ji said. Mm-hmm. It is, you know, all religious. What he said about the charity, we talk in Judaism about sadaqah. Mm-hmm. So it is a very, very most, uh, you know, the pious deed which you could do.
22:49 We also have with us, uh, uh, the, uh, father of a organ recipient, uh, Kamal Roy. He's, uh, in the Navy. And, uh, his little daughter is the recipient of, uh, uh, transplanted liver. And, uh, can you say something about your experience? We also have with us, uh, uh, the, uh, father of a organ recipient, uh, Kamal Roy. He's, uh, in the Navy. And, uh, his little daughter is the recipient of, uh, uh, transplanted liver. And, uh, can you say something about your experience?
23:06 Yes. Yes.
23:11 My little daughter, Jagriti, she at the age of one year, doctor told that, uh, her liver has been damaged. My little daughter, Jagriti, she at the age of one year, doctor told that, uh, her liver has been damaged.
23:17 She need to be transplanted. She need to be transplanted.
23:23 At the time of her birth, she was born with jaundice. At the time of her birth, she was born with jaundice.
23:29 Since then, uh, the liver started deteriorating. Since then, uh, the liver started deteriorating.
23:35 I visited many hospitals, but, but doctor told that, uh, the bile duct is blocked, and this cannot I visited many hospitals, but, but doctor told that, uh, the bile duct is blocked, and this cannot
23:40 be corrected by applying medicine or any operations. be corrected by applying medicine or any operations.
23:46 Only way is the liver transplantation. Only way is the liver transplantation.
23:52 Then I came here to Delhi at RR Hospital. Then I came here to Delhi at RR Hospital.
23:58 Their doctors advised me that this is very risky, and you have to arrange your donor. Their doctors advised me that this is very risky, and you have to arrange your donor.
24:04 Risky, risky for the for your daughter? For the daughter and the child was, uh, very weak. Weak? It was very risky for the daughter to transplant at this time. But there is no other option other than liver transplantation. But you have to arrange the donor. Mm-hmm. My wife was agree. Mm-hmm. But doctor tested, uh, for my wife also. Mm-hmm. Risky, risky for the for your daughter? For the daughter and the child was, uh, very weak. Weak? It was very risky for the daughter to transplant at this time. But there is no other option other than liver transplantation. But you have to arrange the donor. Mm-hmm. My wife was agree. Mm-hmm. But doctor tested, uh, for my wife also. Mm-hmm.
24:26 But day before that plant transplantation, we got a diseased liver from Ames Hospital. We don't know who was that boy. I know that he was only 8 years old. Mm-hmm. When the doctors got her liver from Ames, and she was transplanted at RR Hospital. That's two years back. Uh-huh. After. So there was another child who, who had died? Who died? But day before that plant transplantation, we got a diseased liver from Ames Hospital. We don't know who was that boy. I know that he was only 8 years old. Mm-hmm. When the doctors got her liver from Ames, and she was transplanted at RR Hospital. That's two years back. Uh-huh. After. So there was another child who, who had died? Who died?
24:55 I don't know who was. Okay. And then you, uh so your daughter benefited from the organ transplant. Oh, yeah. And, uh, is she there with you here? Yes. She has gone out. She's gone out. She, she's a very lively little child and, uh, very naughty. I can see that. Naughty, naughty. So she is leading almost a normal kind of life. But you did mention that she has to be on immunosuppressants. Yes. Uh, probably for life. Yeah. So i-is, is that a problem, or is that, uh? I don't know who was. Okay. And then you, uh so your daughter benefited from the organ transplant. Oh, yeah. And, uh, is she there with you here? Yes. She has gone out. She's gone out. She, she's a very lively little child and, uh, very naughty. I can see that. Naughty, naughty. So she is leading almost a normal kind of life. But you did mention that she has to be on immunosuppressants. Yes. Uh, probably for life. Yeah. So i-is, is that a problem, or is that, uh?
25:23 No, no. She has to take medicine daily, uh, at time, uh, at morning 5 o'clock and evening 5 o'clock. Before taking the medicine, she has to take two hours fasting. And after taking the medicine, she has to take two hours fasting. It is very difficult at this age. She want to take something in between. How old is she now? You said she's 3 years old. She is 3 years old. Yeah. Mm-hmm. At this stage, it is very difficult. Otherwise, when she was small, that was not so difficult. Yeah. No, no. She has to take medicine daily, uh, at time, uh, at morning 5 o'clock and evening 5 o'clock. Before taking the medicine, she has to take two hours fasting. And after taking the medicine, she has to take two hours fasting. It is very difficult at this age. She want to take something in between. How old is she now? You said she's 3 years old. She is 3 years old. Yeah. Mm-hmm. At this stage, it is very difficult. Otherwise, when she was small, that was not so difficult. Yeah.
25:48 Other than these medicines, also, she is taking other two, three medicines at this time, but this medicine will continue lifelong, as doctor told me. And, uh, so you, you, you are happy that you took the decision to go in for a liver transplant? Of course, madam. Despite the risks that was citing? Yes. But otherwise, there was no other option, madam. We have to go for transplant at this stage. Otherwise. Other than these medicines, also, she is taking other two, three medicines at this time, but this medicine will continue lifelong, as doctor told me. And, uh, so you, you, you are happy that you took the decision to go in for a liver transplant? Of course, madam. Despite the risks that was citing? Yes. But otherwise, there was no other option, madam. We have to go for transplant at this stage. Otherwise.
26:10 Yes. So, um, psychologically, I mean, I'll ask Dr. Pulkit Sharma, of course. But, uh, did you did you feel anything, uh I mean, like, what were your feelings? Like, you had no problems in, uh you know, did you have fears that what would happen to her after the transplant, and how will we manage, and that sort of a thing? Or all those things have been ironed out now? Now you're okay? Yes. So, um, psychologically, I mean, I'll ask Dr. Pulkit Sharma, of course. But, uh, did you did you feel anything, uh I mean, like, what were your feelings? Like, you had no problems in, uh you know, did you have fears that what would happen to her after the transplant, and how will we manage, and that sort of a thing? Or all those things have been ironed out now? Now you're okay?
26:34 No, she's, uh, fine after two years. But, uh, five, six months after liver transplant, she got some more problems. Mm-hmm. CMB infections and, uh. Because of the immunosuppressants? Because she was admitted to hospital after transplant for five months. Mm-hmm. Continuously for five months. Okay. No, she's, uh, fine after two years. But, uh, five, six months after liver transplant, she got some more problems. Mm-hmm. CMB infections and, uh. Because of the immunosuppressants? Because she was admitted to hospital after transplant for five months. Mm-hmm. Continuously for five months. Okay.
26:53 After that, uh, after that, also, she was there for two, three times for two, three days, uh, liver biopsy and, uh, other tests were conducted there. But otherwise, now she's leading almost a normal life. No, she's okay. But a little bit problem is there. But, uh, no problem. Doctors are there. They are helping us. Happy that she's alive and well? She has grown a lot. She's fine now. I'm very happy. After that, uh, after that, also, she was there for two, three times for two, three days, uh, liver biopsy and, uh, other tests were conducted there. But otherwise, now she's leading almost a normal life. No, she's okay. But a little bit problem is there. But, uh, no problem. Doctors are there. They are helping us. Happy that she's alive and well? She has grown a lot. She's fine now. I'm very happy.
27:18 Okay. So, uh, d uh, doctor, I would like to ask you that, uh, what are the, uh, challenges for a, uh both for a, say, uh, uh for a patient who has received an organ transplant, uh, they have to be on lifelong, uh, medication for, uh, immunosuppression so that the organ is not rejected. So what kind of awareness has to be created with regard to this? Okay. So, uh, d uh, doctor, I would like to ask you that, uh, what are the, uh, challenges for a, uh both for a, say, uh, uh for a patient who has received an organ transplant, uh, they have to be on lifelong, uh, medication for, uh, immunosuppression so that the organ is not rejected. So what kind of awareness has to be created with regard to this?
27:45 Um, I think that's a very important part when we counsel the family. When we select people for organ transplants, we make sure that they are in a position to understand the importance that it is not just a one-time thing. Because your body would reject the liver or the kidney or any organ unless you take lifelong immunocom immunosuppressants. And they come with a cost. Like, the Navy would provide, uh, the medicines to the baby. You did mention that you were in the army as well. Yeah, I was. Yes. We set up the. Um, I think that's a very important part when we counsel the family. When we select people for organ transplants, we make sure that they are in a position to understand the importance that it is not just a one-time thing. Because your body would reject the liver or the kidney or any organ unless you take lifelong immunocom immunosuppressants. And they come with a cost. Like, the Navy would provide, uh, the medicines to the baby. You did mention that you were in the army as well. Yeah, I was. Yes. We set up the.
28:14 And that you started set up the, uh. Yes. We set up the armed forces, the called AOTA program, Armed Forces Organ Retrieval and Transplantation. And I think we've done now more than 50 people who have donated all their organs after they were brain dead. And, uh, the thing is that immunosuppression is something which costs money. It is almost about ₹20,000 a month for the cost of the medicines and then the repeated blood levels of the medicines that we have to do. And that you started set up the, uh. Yes. We set up the armed forces, the called AOTA program, Armed Forces Organ Retrieval and Transplantation. And I think we've done now more than 50 people who have donated all their organs after they were brain dead. And, uh, the thing is that immunosuppression is something which costs money. It is almost about ₹20,000 a month for the cost of the medicines and then the repeated blood levels of the medicines that we have to do.
28:44 Mm-hmm. So I think our government has to step in and reduce the cost of these, uh, medications which are so important. A common person cannot afford that kind of cost. Another thing I would like to talk about as brought out for, uh, the little baby here is the, uh, risk of live donation. Mm-hmm. I think this is the, um, right time to bring it up because. Mm-hmm. Live donation carries a lot of risk. And this is something which we almost understand, especially a liver donation. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I think our government has to step in and reduce the cost of these, uh, medications which are so important. A common person cannot afford that kind of cost. Another thing I would like to talk about as brought out for, uh, the little baby here is the, uh, risk of live donation. Mm-hmm. I think this is the, um, right time to bring it up because. Mm-hmm. Live donation carries a lot of risk. And this is something which we almost understand, especially a liver donation. Mm-hmm.
29:14 A kidney donation, when there are two separate kidneys and, uh, you can take one. Which was paid organs. Paid organs, it's much easier. Mm-hmm. But for liver, uh, liver donation is fraught with risk because we've had at least 20-odd people all over the world who have died donating. And about 30% of the time, you will get some kind of donor-related morbidity to the donor. So living donation is not an a very good option. A kidney donation, when there are two separate kidneys and, uh, you can take one. Which was paid organs. Paid organs, it's much easier. Mm-hmm. But for liver, uh, liver donation is fraught with risk because we've had at least 20-odd people all over the world who have died donating. And about 30% of the time, you will get some kind of donor-related morbidity to the donor. So living donation is not an a very good option.
29:40 Which is all the more reason why we need to promote and create awareness about cadaver. Absolutely. I'll give you an example. In the United States, they do almost, uh, 10,000 liver transplants in a year. But out of that, 9,950 are cadaveric. So the developed world, if you see, uh, the European countries, if you see the US, they do not do liver transplants with a live donor program. Mm-hmm. Which is all the more reason why we need to promote and create awareness about cadaver. Absolutely. I'll give you an example. In the United States, they do almost, uh, 10,000 liver transplants in a year. But out of that, 9,950 are cadaveric. So the developed world, if you see, uh, the European countries, if you see the US, they do not do liver transplants with a live donor program. Mm-hmm.
30:07 So we are doing it out of a necessity. And now that, as you have raised this campaign, it's a very nice time to make people aware. So wha-what role do you think hospitals can play in this? Because, uh, when patients, uh, are terminally ill or they are in an accident case, or you know that they're going to die, so, uh, is that the right time? So we are doing it out of a necessity. And now that, as you have raised this campaign, it's a very nice time to make people aware. So wha-what role do you think hospitals can play in this? Because, uh, when patients, uh, are terminally ill or they are in an accident case, or you know that they're going to die, so, uh, is that the right time?
30:29 Although it of course, it's a very sensitive and emotional time for the family, uh, in case they are not already organ donors, do you think it's the right time to, uh, broach the topic with the family? Absolutely. Uh, from our experience, uh, we find that we are when it comes to the art of giving to somebody, the Indians are as good as anywhere in the world. Although it of course, it's a very sensitive and emotional time for the family, uh, in case they are not already organ donors, do you think it's the right time to, uh, broach the topic with the family? Absolutely. Uh, from our experience, uh, we find that we are when it comes to the art of giving to somebody, the Indians are as good as anywhere in the world.
30:51 I can tell you that we've had about 50 donations in the armed forces. And after that, I've been associated with another 10 donations in the civil street. And the acceptance rate in our country is about 50%. That means if you ask about 100 families for organ donation. Mm-hmm. 40 to 50 percent of the time, people say yes. And the same figure we have from Mohan Foundation. Mm-hmm. Same figure from any organization which has bent its back and tried. Like, for instance, in Kanupriya's case. I can tell you that we've had about 50 donations in the armed forces. And after that, I've been associated with another 10 donations in the civil street. And the acceptance rate in our country is about 50%. That means if you ask about 100 families for organ donation. Mm-hmm. 40 to 50 percent of the time, people say yes. And the same figure we have from Mohan Foundation. Mm-hmm. Same figure from any organization which has bent its back and tried. Like, for instance, in Kanupriya's case.
31:21 Mm-hmm. Uh, she was aware. She was already aware of it. Yes. And she was an informed. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, uh, mother of a donor in the sense she took the decision in, in almost a flash, I think. However, uh, there are others who may not mind giving, but they may not even be aware that such an option exists. We just have to make processes more easier. Uh, we just have to make. What would you suggest? What would you suggest? You know, it sh you know, there is enough talk about HIV. Mm-hmm. Uh, she was aware. She was already aware of it. Yes. And she was an informed. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, uh, mother of a donor in the sense she took the decision in, in almost a flash, I think. However, uh, there are others who may not mind giving, but they may not even be aware that such an option exists. We just have to make processes more easier. Uh, we just have to make. What would you suggest? What would you suggest? You know, it sh you know, there is enough talk about HIV.
31:48 There are hoardings on malaria. There are hoardings on dengue. Where are there where is there any awareness, uh, material put up on organ donation? It should be there. If you walk into a blood donation, there is enough of blood donation. There is enough of blood donation. Even for eye donation, you know, you, you, you talk to a group of 50 people, and you ask them, "How many of eye do of, of you are eye donors? " Probably a hand or two will go up. Organ donor, as a rule, nobody's ever signed up because nobody's ever known how to do it. As simple as that. They don't know where to go. Yeah. I like that. There are hoardings on malaria. There are hoardings on dengue. Where are there where is there any awareness, uh, material put up on organ donation? It should be there. If you walk into a blood donation, there is enough of blood donation. There is enough of blood donation. Even for eye donation, you know, you, you, you talk to a group of 50 people, and you ask them, "How many of eye do of, of you are eye donors? " Probably a hand or two will go up. Organ donor, as a rule, nobody's ever signed up because nobody's ever nobody has ever known how to do it. As simple as that. They don't know where to go. Yeah. I like that.
32:17 Every hospital should have sorry? Yeah. No, I was saying that, you know, that one more important aspect of, uh, you know, this awareness campaign should be sharing the survival stories. You know, that how someone was there who. More positive stories in the media. Yeah. You know, so we need those detailed stories and maybe, uh, clips from those people, messages from the family, and from the person who has received the organ, that how it made difference to their life. It's so closet. It's so simply, Maulana Ji put it. I, I thought it was such a sweet statement you made. He's saying, "What a good idea to give something that you don't." Every hospital should have sorry? Yeah. No, I was saying that, you know, that one more important aspect of, uh, you know, this awareness campaign should be sharing the survival stories. You know, that how someone was there who. More positive stories in the media. Yeah. You know, so we need those detailed stories and maybe, uh, clips from those people, messages from the family, and from the person who has received the organ, that how it made difference to their life. It's so closet. It's so simply, Maulana Ji put it. I, I thought it was such a sweet statement you made. He's saying, "What a good idea to give something that you don't." Right.
32:46 "What a good idea." I mean, how lovely to be able to give away something that you don't need and, and save lives, not one, not two, but at least five, seven. Which, which outclasses you. It outclasses you. And it costs nothing. That's what it is. It costs nothing. Nothing. But a gorgeous idea. That's an important point. Yeah. And such a senior religious leader saying that. I mean, oh, what is generousness. Yeah. Also, one point I yeah. Yes. Yes, Kanupriya. "What a good idea." I mean, how lovely to be able to give away something that you don't need and, and save lives, not one, not two, but at least five, seven. Which, which outclasses you. It outclasses you. And it costs nothing. That's what it is. It costs nothing. Nothing. But a gorgeous idea. That's an important point. Yeah. And such a senior religious leader saying that. I mean, oh, what is generousness. Yeah. Also, one point I yeah. Yes. Yes, Kanupriya.
33:08 One point that, uh, uh, as Pallavi said, that awareness is awareness is very important. Because, um, at the time at that time is a very critical time when someone the, the dear one is dying. And at that moment, when doctor talk about, uh, something, donation kind of sink, maybe people don't want to even listen. They don't want to even think about it. They don't want to think about it. One point that, uh, uh, as Pallavi said, that awareness is awareness is very important. Because, um, at the time at that time is a very critical time when someone the, the dear one is dying. And at that moment, when doctor talk about, uh, something, donation kind of sink, maybe people don't want to even listen. They don't want to even think about it. They don't want to think about it.
33:30 And, uh, and doctors even cannot force them or, uh, uh, try them to make understand that, "Okay, this is a good thing." Because that time, they are. We are. Yes, yes. They are tr. And many times, they're also in anger. See, because they. Yes. One is ill. And if you take them to the hospital and they, you know, uh, kind of, you know, uh. They're not ready to take it. Go on a worse course or you don't want them to do, the family also has a lot of anger and rage. Mm-hmm. You know? So I think all these feelings need to be taken care of. And, uh, and doctors even cannot force them or, uh, uh, try them to make understand that, "Okay, this is a good thing." Because that time, they are. We are. Yes, yes. They are tr. And many times, they're also in anger. See, because they. Yes. One is ill. And if you take them to the hospital and they, you know, uh, kind of, you know, uh. They're not ready to take it. Go on a worse course or you don't want them to do, the family also has a lot of anger and rage. Mm-hmm. You know? So I think all these feelings need to be taken care of.
33:57 And a consistent, uh, you know, uh, campaign outside the hospitals, throughout the general population. Absolutely. I think that will be more effective. You, uh. In the hospital premises, there should be some hoarding cycles. Even if someone is, uh, going. Somewhere silently. You can donate. Uh, messages, hoardings. Yes. You know, then people coming actively and saying that they don't. I like, uh, um, a few proactive hospitals, uh, here who are actually talking about organ donation. And if you go to a hospital, you nobody will ever speak to you about organ donation, you know? And a consistent, uh, you know, uh, campaign outside the hospitals, throughout the general population. Absolutely. I think that will be more effective. You, uh. In the hospital premises, there should be some hoarding cycles. Even if someone is, uh, going. Somewhere silently. You can donate. Uh, messages, hoardings. Yes. You know, then people coming actively and saying that they don't. I like, uh, um, a few proactive hospitals, uh, here who are actually talking about organ donation. And if you go to a hospital, you nobody will ever speak to you about organ donation, you know?
34:23 Uh, so then, uh, Dr. Seth, do you think there is a need to have, uh, say, um, counselors. Right. For, uh, the family of terminally ill patients so that in the course of their stay in the hospital, they can kind of go around, get to know them, and gently explain to them what the options are? I-is there such a system, or? Uh, we have, uh, trained counselors in our country, but very few. Uh, so then, uh, Dr. Seth, do you think there is a need to have, uh, say, um, counselors. Right. For, uh, the family of terminally ill patients so that in the course of their stay in the hospital, they can kind of go around, get to know them, and gently explain to them what the options are? I-is there such a system, or? Uh, we have, uh, trained counselors in our country, but very few.
34:48 And I must compliment, uh, Mohan Foundation for taking it on, you know, for training the counselors. Mm-hmm. And I must compliment, uh, Mohan Foundation for taking it on, you know, for training the counselors. Mm-hmm.
34:54 But we also find that in our day-to-day system, counselors' role is important. But we also find that in our day-to-day system, counselors' role is important.
34:59 But then the role of the treating physician is also very important. But then the role of the treating physician is also very important.
35:04 You know, in our country, uh, especially, uh, in the non-government sector, you'll find that the GP or You know, in our country, uh, especially, uh, in the non-government sector, you'll find that the GP or
35:10 the general practitioner is the one that the family listens to quite a bit for everything. the general practitioner is the one that the family listens to quite a bit for everything.
35:15 Whom to go for surgery to, where to get any blood test done, they will ask the general practitioner. Whom to go for surgery to, where to get any blood test done, they will ask the general practitioner.
35:21 So we have, uh, thought out a plan that we must involve the general practitioner. So we have, uh, thought out a plan that we must involve the general practitioner.
35:26 And we also must bra involve the treating person who has been, uh, dealing with them, the neurosurgeon, neurophysician. And we also must bra involve the treating person who has been, uh, dealing with them, the neurosurgeon, neurophysician.
35:32 If they break the news to them that the patient is brain dead and then hand over to If they break the news to them that the patient is brain dead and then hand over to
35:36 the next person, it's so much better. the next person, it's so much better.
35:40 So transplant coordinators are very important. So transplant coordinators are very important.
35:44 But in our country, we find it's a bit difficult if they get into the ICUs on a routine basis. But in our country, we find it's a bit difficult if they get into the ICUs on a routine basis.
35:48 It's something which the doctors may not like. It's something which the doctors may not like.
35:52 So transplant coordinators are important, but at the appropriate time. So transplant coordinators are important, but at the appropriate time.
35:56 The person who's very important is the general practitioner, the GP. The person who's very important is the general practitioner, the GP.
36:00 And the news has to be broken down by the neurophysician, the neurosurgeon themselves. And the news has to be broken down by the neurophysician, the neurosurgeon themselves.
36:04 So. And I think that this team also, you know, uh, they need to be given proper training, you know? Because when we are going to a family, you know, who is in a bereaved state, you know, for. Re-conciliation. Organ donation, we are we are, uh, not just, you know, going there very mechanically with this agenda that, "Oh, now the person is dead. Give us your, you know, the organs." I think, uh, it ha uh, you know, the whole team has to be very sensitive to their feelings, talk to them about their feelings, take care of those feelings, and then very gently proceed towards, you know, this topic. Right. So. And I think that this team also, you know, uh, they need to be given proper training, you know? Because when we are going to a family, you know, who is in a bereaved state, you know, for. Re-conciliation. Organ donation, we are we are, uh, not just, you know, going there very mechanically with this agenda that, "Oh, now the person is dead. Give us your, you know, the organs." I think, uh, it ha uh, you know, the whole team has to be very sensitive to their feelings, talk to them about their feelings, take care of those feelings, and then very gently proceed towards, you know, this topic. Right.
36:32 And this is not something that can be delayed for a very long time. Yeah. Certainly. Because one has to act swiftly. Yeah. Certainly. Yes. But I can tell you that whenever we talk to families, it takes time. Mm-hmm. There's hardly ever a family that will, uh, immediately say yes. Yes. So whenever we talk to families, we always give them time. So they will come back to you after four hours, six hours, and then have another meeting, another four hours, six hours. Time is short. But then they need time to think it out. And this is not something that can be delayed for a very long time. Yeah. Certainly. Because one has to act swiftly. Yeah. Certainly. Yes. But I can tell you that whenever we talk to families, it takes time. Mm-hmm. There's hardly ever a family that will, uh, immediately say yes. Yes. So whenever we talk to families, we always give them time. So they will come back to you after four hours, six hours, and then have another meeting, another four hours, six hours. Time is short. But then they need time to think it out.
36:59 And also, uh, Dr. Sharma, uh, recently, uh, wrote, uh, that, um, he, he talked about a particular, uh, case where a person, uh, used to be very depressed. Yeah. And suffer from a lot of, uh, death anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. Death anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. And the moment he became an organ donor, his whole life got transformed. Can you say a little bit about that? Yeah. So, uh, yeah. So, uh, there was this person, and I was talking in the beginning, that people generally identify with their body, you know? And also, uh, Dr. Sharma, uh, recently, uh, wrote, uh, that, um, he, he talked about a particular, uh, case where a person, uh, used to be very depressed. Yeah. And suffer from a lot of, uh, death anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. Death anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. And the moment he became an organ donor, his whole life got transformed. Can you say a little bit about that? Yeah. So, uh, yeah. So, uh, there was this person, and I was talking in the beginning, that people generally identify with their body, you know?
37:27 So when they're growing old or they are ill, they. Obsessiveness about your body. Yeah. So, so they get more obsessive, uh, about their body. And they have this fear that, "I'll, I'll die. I'll be finished," you know? So when they're growing old or they are ill, they. Obsessiveness about your body. Yeah. So, so they get more obsessive, uh, about their body. And they have this fear that, "I'll, I'll die. I'll be finished," you know?
37:37 So there was this person who had a lot of such anxiety. And, you know, he, uh, uh, went through counseling. And he went into spirituality as well, uh, side by side at the same time. And after that, he came up with this idea, you know, that, "After I die, I, I, I would, uh, donate my, uh, uh, organs." And he kind of, you know, he got out of that, you know, uh, limited sense of, you know, self. And he, in fact, could you know, he had, in fact, a spiritual experience where he said. So there was this person who had a lot of such anxiety. And, you know, he, uh, uh, went through counseling. And he went into spirituality as well, uh, side by side at the same time. And after that, he came up with this idea, you know, that, "After I die, I, I, I would, uh, donate my, uh, uh, organs." And he kind of, you know, he got out of that, you know, uh, limited sense of, you know, self. And he, in fact, could you know, he had, in fact, a spiritual experience where he said.
38:07 He transcended his body. So to speak. Yeah. Where he said, "I now feel connected to everyone in general. And I'm so happy. I, I now get a sense that I would not, you know, die and, you know, become a black hole sort of thing, but I'll go living on," you know? So that was the transformation he experienced. Yeah. To make a point. Because, uh, the same thing was with me. Because four and a half years, Venya was, uh, uh, like, suffering. Venya? Your daughter? He transcended his body. So to speak. Yeah. Where he said, "I now feel connected to everyone in general. And I'm so happy. I, I now get a sense that I would not, you know, die and, you know, become a black hole sort of thing, but I'll go living on," you know? So that was the transformation he experienced. Yeah. To make a point. Because, uh, the same thing was with me. Because four and a half years, Venya was, uh, uh, like, suffering. Venya? Your daughter?
38:29 Yes. My daughter was suffering for everything. Um, uh, whole, uh, whole body veins were pricked. And there was no vein for putting cannula there. And, uh, surgeries and all. And she was not living. She could not see. She could not speak. She could not move. She could not do anything. So this do-donating idea was with me, like, that, "Okay, at least her life was worth for something." She her life, life not, uh, wasted. Yes. My daughter was suffering for everything. Um, uh, whole, uh, whole body veins were pricked. And there was no vein for putting cannula there. And, uh, surgeries and all. And she was not living. She could not see. She could not speak. She could not move. She could not do anything. So this do-donating idea was with me, like, that, "Okay, at least her life was worth for something." She her life, life not, uh, wasted.
38:58 She did not suffer in vain. Yes, yes. So this was a-also thing in the back of my mind. Mm-hmm. Her life was not wasted. At least five people. Positive people. Yes, yes. Definitely. So, in fact, uh, perhaps if, uh, like, NGOs you're like yourself and even hospitals, and if people like Kanupriya could actually, you know, be roped into convince. I want to. Yes, yes. She did not suffer in vain. Yes, yes. So this was a-also thing in the back of my mind. Mm-hmm. Her life was not wasted. At least five people. Positive people. Yes, yes. Definitely. So, in fact, uh, perhaps if, uh, like, NGOs you're like yourself and even hospitals, and if people like Kanupriya could actually, you know, be roped into convince. I want to. Yes, yes.
39:23 I wanted to tell I wanted to tell her after this meeting that if I can join in some way. That would be wonderful. Because it's very easy for organizations like us to say it's a noble deed or for religious leaders to say it. But you've been through it, Vena. We've been through it. And it should have been through it. You've, uh, experienced the pain and the suffering. Yeah. And you've also experienced the, um, feeling of giving life and that your daughter's life was not wasted. So I think that would be she would be an excellent ambassador of, uh, you know, this whole cause. I wanted to tell I wanted to tell her after this meeting that if I can join in some way. That would be wonderful. Because it's very easy for organizations like us to say it's a noble deed or for religious leaders to say it. But you've been through it, Vena. We've been through it. And it should have been through it. You've, uh, experienced the pain and the suffering. Yeah. And you've also experienced the, um, feeling of giving life and that your daughter's life was not wasted. So I think that would be she would be an excellent ambassador of, uh, you know, this whole cause.
39:53 And, uh, as, uh, Pallavi has suggested, that hoardings like, I have seen at the medical, uh, airports also. Is that that one lone hoarding in the whole of Delhi NCR? Like, there are many, you know? Like, uh, I remember that, uh, famous bumper sticker, "Do not take your organs to heaven." Heaven. God knows. And, uh, as, uh, Pallavi has suggested, that hoardings like, I have seen at the medical, uh, airports also. Is that that one lone hoarding in the whole of Delhi NCR? Like, there are many, you know? Like, uh, I remember that, uh, famous bumper sticker, "Do not take your organs to heaven." Heaven. God knows.
40:11 God knows that we need those organs here yourself. And the second one is, uh, to save a life is like to save a universe. And, uh, Madam, uh, one point I would like to make it here, that we must distinguish between the or-organ donation during the lifetime and after death. Yes. During lifetime, you can donate your kidney, uh, bone marrow. Now we are donating the. Blood. Uh, uh, you know, the blood also. So. God knows that we need those organs here yourself. And the second one is, uh, to save a life is like to save a universe. And, uh, Madam, uh, one point I would like to make it here, that we must distinguish between the or-organ donation during the lifetime and after death. Yes. During lifetime, you can donate your kidney, uh, bone marrow. Now we are donating the. Blood. Uh, uh, you know, the blood also. So.
40:41 Yes. But that awareness has to be created. Yes. Awareness is important. Maulana Maulana Saheb, would you like to add something to this discussion? Would you like to say something? There's enough. My brother is very competent to, um, throw light on these matters. But have you? I, I, I agree with the with your ideas. Yes. Yes. But that awareness has to be created. Yes. Awareness is important. Maulana Maulana Saheb, would you like to add something to this discussion? Would you like to say something? There's enough. My brother is very competent to, um, throw light on these matters. But have you? I, I, I agree with the with your ideas. Yes.
41:07 Well, what, uh, Ma-Madam, in Judaism and, uh, Islam, we think that, uh, by donating organ on any part of, uh, this body, uh, that desecration of, uh, the dead or, uh, delaying the burials. Mm-hmm. You know, it, it, it gives ways to be very orthodox people. Mm-hmm. Uh, am I right, Maulana Ji? No, but. Well, what, uh, Ma-Madam, in Judaism and, uh, Islam, we think that, uh, by donating organ on any part of, uh, this body, uh, that desecration of, uh, the dead or, uh, delaying the burials. Mm-hmm. You know, it, it, it gives ways to be very orthodox people. Mm-hmm. Uh, am I right, Maulana Ji? No, but.
41:29 If we all donate the organs, then there is a belief that, uh, you're delaying the burials. And many people, they don't like it. Oh, no. But Maulana Saheb has said that, uh, just because you donate an organ, it doesn't mean that you are, uh, somehow incomplete or. No, no, no. You're not, not, not incomplete. Delaying. Suppose the person delaying. Suppose the person dies. The last day. It takes a whole day. Oh, I see. To, uh, you know? So that is the. And to bring them for the last, right? If we all donate the organs, then there is a belief that, uh, you're delaying the burials. And many people, they don't like it. Oh, no. But Maulana Saheb has said that, uh, just because you donate an organ, it doesn't mean that you are, uh, somehow incomplete or. No, no, no. You're not, not, not incomplete. Delaying. Suppose the person delaying. Suppose the person dies. The last day. It takes a whole day. Oh, I see. To, uh, you know? So that is the. And to bring them for the last, right?
41:58 Ask Maulana uh, Maulana Saheb? Yeah. Maulana Saheb, what do you have to say to that about this thing, about delay and? No, I, I don't I will not subscribe with this idea. Um, I, I, I, I, I one point I, I want to add that when we donate some organ to other person, we lose nothing. You lose nothing. Ask Maulana uh, Maulana Saheb? Yeah. Maulana Saheb, what do you have to say to that about this thing, about delay and? No, I, I don't I will not subscribe with this idea. Um, I, I, I, I, I one point I, I want to add that when we donate some organ to other person, we lose nothing. You lose nothing.
42:28 Nothing. Hmm. And if you, if you give some money, then you, you are losing some money. Mm-hmm. But when you when you give some organ, that, that is a very good kind of sadhaka, that is, I mean, charity. That without losing something, you are giving others something. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. It's, it's very important. It is honor to the dead person. So, uh, Kanupriya, you wanted to say something? Nothing. Hmm. And if you, if you give some money, then you, you are losing some money. Mm-hmm. But when you when you give some organ, that, that is a very good kind of sadhaka, that is, I mean, charity. That without losing something, you are giving others something. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. It's, it's very important. It is honor to the dead person. So, uh, Kanupriya, you wanted to say something?
42:56 Yes. There was little resistance in our family to, um, um, few people told us that, uh, don't go for it. Yes. There was little resistance in our family to, um, um, few people told us that, uh, don't go for it.
43:04 Because after, uh, in rebirth time, uh, she will not have eyes. And she will not have these kind of things. So I just want to say that no, no religion, uh, tells it that this is good or bad. Superstitions are in every religion. So, uh, uh, awareness is the only thing, um, which can be spread and, uh, because otherwise even otherwise, uh, the body is going to be buried or it's going to be burned. Because after, uh, in rebirth time, uh, she will not have eyes. And she will not have these kind of things. So I just want to say that no, no religion, uh, tells it that this is good or bad. Superstitions are in every religion. So, uh, uh, awareness is the only thing, um, which can be spread and, uh, because otherwise even otherwise, uh, the body is going to be buried or it's going to be burned.
43:34 Right. Yeah. That is one problem we face, uh, day to day, that in India, like, in the Western countries, when, uh, like, we were there, you'll find merely one or two relatives would come in. And you would be counseling them. Mm-hmm. In our country, when somebody is very unwell, sometimes you have 15, 20 people from a family. And then that is where our coordinators gradually have learned how to deal with it, how you identify the two or three people who seem to be the decision-makers, who are the most balanced people. Right. Yeah. That is one problem we face, uh, day to day, that in India, like, in the Western countries, when, uh, like, we were there, you'll find merely one or two relatives would come in. And you would be counseling them. Mm-hmm. In our country, when somebody is very unwell, sometimes you have 15, 20 people from a family. And then that is where our coordinators gradually have learned how to deal with it, how you identify the two or three people who seem to be the decision-makers, who are the most balanced people.
44:02 But if, uh, if, uh, uh, correct me if I'm wrong. I think the next of kin would be just one person, right, who would need to give the permission? We, yes, we need, uh, basically, permission from the near relative. We say that. Either side? The person who's in yes, person who's in possession of the body. But then that one person who's signing, for example, the spouse or the parent. A decision is influenced by. His, yes, his decision. Is influenced by many. But if, uh, if, uh, uh, correct me if I'm wrong. I think the next of kin would be just one person, right, who would need to give the permission? We, yes, we need, uh, basically, permission from the near relative. We say that. Either side? The person who's in yes, person who's in possession of the body. But then that one person who's signing, for example, the spouse or the parent. A decision is influenced by. His, yes, his decision. Is influenced by many.
44:26 Is not only influenced, but once he signs, then he's signing on everyone's behalf too. So we always make sure that maybe two or three people can sign to just make it, uh. Make it clear. Very clear for the whole family. But yes, we have a problem where a lot of people come together. Mm-hmm. So, uh, as yeah, sorry. And that is why it is so important for hospitals to have dedicated staff for this work. It can't just be done by anybody. Because doctors don't have that kind of time, you know? Mm-hmm. Is not only influenced, but once he signs, then he's signing on everyone's behalf too. So we always make sure that maybe two or three people can sign to just make it, uh. Make it clear. Very clear for the whole family. But yes, we have a problem where a lot of people come together. Mm-hmm. So, uh, as yeah, sorry. And that is why it is so important for hospitals to have dedicated staff for this work. It can't just be done by anybody. Because doctors don't have that kind of time, you know? Mm-hmm.
44:52 Uh, we recently had a donation about 15 days ago at a hospital. And I started talking to the family at 2 o'clock one afternoon. And the family said, "Yes, 4 o'clock the next." It was 26 hours of speaking to mamas and chachachis and, you know, brothers and sisters. There was anger. There was grief. There was, uh, doubts. Where will the organs go? Who will use them? So someone has to be with the family constantly. Uh, we recently had a donation about 15 days ago at a hospital. And I started talking to the family at 2 o'clock one afternoon. And the family said, "Yes, 4 o'clock the next." It was 26 hours of speaking to mamas and chachachis and, you know, brothers and sisters. There was anger. There was grief. There was, uh, doubts. Where will the organs go? Who will use them? So someone has to be with the family constantly.
45:14 And you cannot underestimate the need to have dedicated counselors or transplant coordinators or whatever you may want to call them for this work in hospitals if it has to be successful. Assemblies. And this, uh, awareness thing, when we talk about awareness, in the hospital staff is equally important as come when we talk of awareness to the general public. Because what happens is, as we have discussed, it takes 12 hours, 24 hours for the family to say yes. Hardly ever they say yes straight away. And you cannot underestimate the need to have dedicated counselors or transplant coordinators or whatever you may want to call them for this work in hospitals if it has to be successful. Assemblies. And this, uh, awareness thing, when we talk about awareness, in the hospital staff is equally important as come when we talk of awareness to the general public. Because what happens is, as we have discussed, it takes 12 hours, 24 hours for the family to say yes. Hardly ever they say yes straight away.
45:42 So the hospital, the intensive care people have to be aware. And there is something called donor maintenance. If you follow a particular protocol and continue the treatment, we find that for 48 hours, 72 hours, we can maintain and allow the family to have a decision. Whereas in our country, the problem we face is that in the hospitals where there is not much awareness, where the staff is not trained, there is brain death. So the hospital, the intensive care people have to be aware. And there is something called donor maintenance. If you follow a particular protocol and continue the treatment, we find that for 48 hours, 72 hours, we can maintain and allow the family to have a decision. Whereas in our country, the problem we face is that in the hospitals where there is not much awareness, where the staff is not trained, there is brain death.
46:09 And very quickly, the next six hours, eight hours, the things go out of control. And there is multi-organ failure. And you can't take organs. So the awareness of the staff to start the donor maintenance protocol to maintain, wait, 24 hours, 48 hours, nothing happens. 72 hours, 96 hours again, also, we have taken the organs. So, so, uh, when you studied medicine, when you went to college, was this part of were you instructed on? And very quickly, the next six hours, eight hours, the things go out of control. And there is multi-organ failure. And you can't take organs. So the awareness of the staff to start the donor maintenance protocol to maintain, wait, 24 hours, 48 hours, nothing happens. 72 hours, 96 hours again, also, we have taken the organs. So, so, uh, when you studied medicine, when you went to college, was this part of were you instructed on?
46:35 No, it's actually shocking. Because I did MBBS. I did my MD Medicine. I taught MD Medicine in one of the best medical colleges. Then I did my doctorate in gastroenterology. And I had not heard of organ donation. It's absolutely shocking. I had to go to England for six months to work on liver transplants. And then I realized that, "My God, what have we been up to? " And but we came back, our team came back. And we made a concerted effort. No, it's actually shocking. Because I did MBBS. I did my MD Medicine. I taught MD Medicine in one of the best medical colleges. Then I did my doctorate in gastroenterology. And I had not heard of organ donation. It's absolutely shocking. I had to go to England for six months to work on liver transplants. And then I realized that, "My God, what have we been up to? " And but we came back, our team came back. And we made a concerted effort.
47:02 And we did succeed in, uh, having organ donation. And we realized that it is it's not that our people are bad. It's just that we never asked nicely. We never had our systems in place. And then this is our experience. And people don't know that such an option exists. And we did succeed in, uh, having organ donation. And we realized that it is it's not that our people are bad. It's just that we never asked nicely. We never had our systems in place. And then this is our experience. And people don't know that such an option exists.
47:16 Yes. And this is our experience with Fortis Hospitals now and, uh, before that also. Once you put systems in place, things would happen. If you do not know what forms to fill in the middle of the night, if you do not know what law to follow, then everybody runs in the opposite direction. That's where the training of the hospital staff is very important. You have to be able to look the family in the eye with conviction and tell them, "We will lead you through it. Yes. And this is our experience with Fortis Hospitals now and, uh, before that also. Once you put systems in place, things would happen. If you do not know what forms to fill in the middle of the night, if you do not know what law to follow, then everybody runs in the opposite direction. That's where the training of the hospital staff is very important. You have to be able to look the family in the eye with conviction and tell them, "We will lead you through it.
47:41 There will not be a problem. We will hand your body back in time. We will not have any mutilation of your body. Your postmortem will not be delayed." So all those things had to be put in place. And the people have to have a confidence in view that, "Okay, this is one organization where it can happen." And also, that the organs will not go to the rich and the mighty. We must have a very good organ-sharing system so that it goes by the need of the person and not anything else. There will not be a problem. We will hand your body back in time. We will not have any mutilation of your body. Your postmortem will not be delayed." So all those things had to be put in place. And the people have to have a confidence in view that, "Okay, this is one organization where it can happen." And also, that the organs will not go to the rich and the mighty. We must have a very good organ-sharing system so that it goes by the need of the person and not anything else.
48:10 So, uh, thank you very much for this. I would have to ask, Pallavi Ji, uh, you know, because I have come across many cases while working in the National Human Rights Commission. And I'm the member of the Ethics Committee of the Lady Harding College and Ram Manor Royal Hospital. Many persons, they, uh, you know, give a like, uh, on the 6th of August, we have this donating organs. Yeah. Organ donation day. So, uh, thank you very much for this. I would have to ask, Pallavi Ji, uh, you know, because I have come across many cases while working in the National Human Rights Commission. And I'm the member of the Ethics Committee of the Lady Harding College and Ram Manor Royal Hospital. Many persons, they, uh, you know, give a like, uh, on the 6th of August, we have this donating organs. Yeah. Organ donation day.
48:32 Yeah. And that, that pledge, uh, many persons, I've seen, they have donated their eyes. But what happens after his death, his relatives, they refuse to, uh, p you know, uh, hospital to, you know, donate the eyes. But that is where that is where the family discussion comes in. Yeah. And that, that pledge, uh, many persons, I've seen, they have donated their eyes. But what happens after his death, his relatives, they refuse to, uh, p you know, uh, hospital to, you know, donate the eyes. But that is where that is where the family discussion comes in.
48:52 Family discussion. Because out of emotional and sentimental, uh, you know, discomfort, uh, they simply say, "No. You would not though my husband has pledged his eyes, but, uh, I would not like to, you know, donate his eyes." You know, so that is. Yes, you're right. So the family members are more. So we, we need to create awareness amongst everybody. And we are attuned to consider, you know, death as the end. We should say that, uh, that is not the end. It's a new beginning, you know? So with that, we should discuss more. Family discussion. Because out of emotional and sentimental, uh, you know, discomfort, uh, they simply say, "No. You would not though my husband has pledged his eyes, but, uh, I would not like to, you know, donate his eyes." You know, so that is. Yes, you're right. So the family members are more. So we, we need to create awareness amongst everybody. And we are attuned to consider, you know, death as the end. We should say that, uh, that is not the end. It's a new beginning, you know? So with that, we should discuss more.
49:20 On that note, on that note, I think we can now conclude this, uh, little discussion. Thank you so much for being here. We, we got the, uh, spiritual perspective from Maulana Saheb and, uh, Rabbi, and from Sri Sri Rabhishankar. On that note, on that note, I think we can now conclude this, uh, little discussion. Thank you so much for being here. We, we got the, uh, spiritual perspective from Maulana Saheb and, uh, Rabbi, and from Sri Sri Rabhishankar.
49:33 And we had the medical, uh, perspective from, uh, Dr. Said and Dr. Sharma. And, um, Pallavi spoke about all the challenges being faced by NGOs. And we had the very touching and emotional account from Kanupriya, who is now determined to take part in creating greater public awareness. If I get the chance. And, uh, thank you, um, Kamal Roy, for, um, sharing your experience with us. Thank you very much. And just remember, August 6th, Organ Donation Day. And we had the medical, uh, perspective from, uh, Dr. Said and Dr. Sharma. And, um, Pallavi spoke about all the challenges being faced by NGOs. And we had the very touching and emotional account from Kanupriya, who is now determined to take part in creating greater public awareness. If I get the chance. And, uh, thank you, um, Kamal Roy, for, um, sharing your experience with us. Thank you very much. And just remember, August 6th, Organ Donation Day.
50:02 And, uh, be sure to spread the word. Thank you. Thank you. And, uh, be sure to spread the word. Thank you. Thank you.