Name: On World Religion Diversity not Dissension I March 9, 2013 — Maulana Wahiduddin Khan
Uploaded: 2013-01-01
Duration: 1 h 58 min 54 s
Channel: Maulana Wahiduddin Khan
Description: Read the full transcript of “On World Religion Diversity not Dissension I March 9, 2013”, a lecture by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, with timestamps.

0:02 he notun, dekha dii karbaar jonmer o prothom shubho khon. হে নূতন, দেখা দিই কারবার জন্মেরও প্রথম শুভক্ষণ।

0:20 he notun, tomar o prokash hok; kuhe likha kori udghaton surjer o moton. হে নূতন, তোমারও প্রকাশ হোক; কুহে লিখা করি উদ্ঘাটন সূর্যেরও মতন।

0:38 rikto tar bokkho bhediye apanare koro unmochon; byakto hok. রিক্ততার বক্ষ ভেদিয়ে আপনারে করো উন্মোচন; ব্যক্ত হোক।

0:57 nomoshkar. নমস্কার।

1:04 We are celebrating the 150th birth anniversary of Swami Vivekananda by holding an international conference on world religions উই আর সেলিব্রেটিং দ্য 150th বার্থ অ্যাননিভার্সারি অফ স্বামী বিবেকানন্দ বাই হোল্ডিং অ্যান ইন্টারন্যাশনাল কনফারেন্স অন ওয়ার্ল্ড রিলিজিয়নস

1:11 diversity not dissension. ডাইভার্সিটি নট ডিসেনশন।

1:18 We are doing so precisely because Swami Vivekananda's thoughts are particularly relevant and important for the contemporary multi-religious উই আর ডুইং সো প্রিসাইজলি বিকজ স্বামী বিবেকানন্দস থটস আর পার্টিকুলারলি রেলেভেন্ট অ্যান্ড ইম্পর্টেন্ট ফর দ্য কন্টেম্পারারি মাল্টিরিলিজিয়াস

1:25 situation that we have worldwide today. সিচুয়েশন দ্যাট উই হ্যাভ ওয়ার্ল্ডওয়াইড টুডে।

1:32 This conference has been inaugurated by the honorable President of India, Shri Pranab Mukherjee, at the Rashtrapati Bhavan itself. দিস কনফারেন্স হ্যাজ বিন ইনগরেটেড বাই দ্য অনারেবল প্রেসিডেন্ট অফ ইন্ডিয়া, শ্রী প্রণব মুখার্জী, অ্যাট দ্য রাষ্ট্রপতি ভবন ইটসেলফ।

1:39 During the past two days, we have been deliberating on various key issues that touch upon multiple aspects ডিউরিং দ্য পাস্ট টু ডেইজ, উই হ্যাভ বিন ডেলিবারেটিং অন ভেরিয়াস কী ইস্যুস দ্যাট টাচ আপন মাল্টিপল অ্যাসপেক্টস

1:46 of this very large and complex theme. অফ দিস ভেরি লার্জ অ্যান্ড কমপ্লেক্স থিম।

1:53 This has been going on at Azad Bhawan, which is the seat of ICCR. দিস হ্যাজ বিন গোইং অন অ্যাট আজাদ ভবন, হুইচ ইজ দ্য সিট অফ আইসিসিআর।

2:00 Today is the final session of this international conference. টুডে ইজ দ্য ফাইনাল সেশন অফ দিস ইন্টারন্যাশনাল কনফারেন্স।

2:08 Well, when you think about our preoccupation with these questions today, it is quite natural to recall that Well, when you think about our preoccupation with these questions today, it is quite natural to recall that

2:17 only two to three decades ago, there were speculations in some quarters that with the spread of secular only two to three decades ago, there were speculations in some quarters that with the spread of secular

2:26 political ideology and sharing of scientific technology, the influence of religious traditions will gradually subside. political ideology and sharing of scientific technology, the influence of religious traditions will gradually subside.

2:35 However, that prediction has proven to be wrong. However, that prediction has proven to be wrong.

2:44 And we know that the religions of the world are very much with us. And we know that the religions of the world are very much with us.

2:53 A common sharing of advanced technology that has facilitated travel and communication in an unprecedented manner has made A common sharing of advanced technology that has facilitated travel and communication in an unprecedented manner has made

3:03 it all the more clear to us that we are by no means living in a post-religious era. it all the more clear to us that we are by no means living in a post-religious era.

3:13 Swami Vivekananda had observed, "Of all the forces that have worked and are still working to mold the Swami Vivekananda had observed, "Of all the forces that have worked and are still working to mold the

3:22 destinies of the human race, none certainly is more potent than that, the manifestation of which we call destinies of the human race, none certainly is more potent than that, the manifestation of which we call

3:32 religion." Perhaps the single most dominant criterion used in the public discourse for distinguishing the largest human aggregates religion." Perhaps the single most dominant criterion used in the public discourse for distinguishing the largest human aggregates

3:42 one from the other is by their religious identity, associated with one or another of the religions of the world. one from the other is by their religious identity, associated with one or another of the religions of the world.

3:52 Indeed, the world religions still are continuing to be the primary sources from which the largest aggregates of Indeed, the world religions still are continuing to be the primary sources from which the largest aggregates of

3:59 humanity draw their norms and values, derive their sense of collective identity, and seek guidance in times of need. humanity draw their norms and values, derive their sense of collective identity, and seek guidance in times of need.

4:07 Consequently, the presence of the plurality of religious identities is an inalienable fact of the contemporary global scene. Consequently, the presence of the plurality of religious identities is an inalienable fact of the contemporary global scene.

4:14 It is a phenomenon that has to be dealt with at multiple levels of exchanges and interactions by It is a phenomenon that has to be dealt with at multiple levels of exchanges and interactions by

4:22 all of us. all of us.

4:30 Today, then, the central question before us is, can we move on to a plane of collective existence when the presence of diversity of religious traditions will no longer be seen as a cause for dissension, as it has often been the case before? Today, then, the central question before us is, can we move on to a plane of collective existence when the presence of diversity of religious traditions will no longer be seen as a cause for dissension, as it has often been the case before?

4:51 Is it at all possible for us to view the religions of the world as our common resource that can enrich and empower us in ways that we cannot even imagine today? Is it at all possible for us to view the religions of the world as our common resource that can enrich and empower us in ways that we cannot even imagine today?

5:06 If we could, or even give it an honest try, we could then claim that we are indeed If we could, or even give it an honest try, we could then claim that we are indeed

5:13 seeking to carry forward a project that was initiated by Swami Vivekananda. seeking to carry forward a project that was initiated by Swami Vivekananda.

5:20 While exploring these issues with the eminent personalities present here, I have chosen this conversational format in order While exploring these issues with the eminent personalities present here, I have chosen this conversational format in order

5:27 to highlight that the endeavor here is not just to invite a series of monologues, but to find to highlight that the endeavor here is not just to invite a series of monologues, but to find

5:34 out how can we gradually innovate a setting, especially with a view to facilitate the bridge-building task among out how can we gradually innovate a setting, especially with a view to facilitate the bridge-building task among

5:41 the religions of the world. the religions of the world.

5:49 This is a humble attempt to carry forward Swami Vivekananda's unfinished project of enhancing harmony and avoiding dissensions among religions of the world. This is a humble attempt to carry forward Swami Vivekananda's unfinished project of enhancing harmony and avoiding dissensions among religions of the world.

6:05 Speaking of religious identity, let me just use a couple of minutes more for trying to understand the Speaking of religious identity, let me just use a couple of minutes more for trying to understand the

6:12 genesis that is the beginning and the constitution of religious identity, as it is generally referred to in genesis that is the beginning and the constitution of religious identity, as it is generally referred to in

6:19 common parlance or in the context of our sociopolitical collective lives. common parlance or in the context of our sociopolitical collective lives.

6:26 Let's begin by asking whether we deliberately choose these identities, or are these by and large attributed to Let's begin by asking whether we deliberately choose these identities, or are these by and large attributed to

6:33 us by the accident of birth. us by the accident of birth.

6:40 The picture seems to me, at least, to be very much as follows: One is first born into The picture seems to me, at least, to be very much as follows: One is first born into

6:48 a tradition, a religious tradition, belongs to it, and only later one can say that the tradition belongs to one. a tradition, a religious tradition, belongs to it, and only later one can say that the tradition belongs to one.

6:57 While considering the question of dissension that often happens in the name of religious identity, it's indeed interesting While considering the question of dissension that often happens in the name of religious identity, it's indeed interesting

7:05 to note that only comparatively very few of us actually get to choose their religious identity. to note that only comparatively very few of us actually get to choose their religious identity.

7:14 As that would imply, most of the time, exiting from the tradition into which one is born. As that would imply, most of the time, exiting from the tradition into which one is born.

7:23 There are such cases, of course. There are examples of persons sitting right here that I know of where one has been born in a specific religious tradition, into a tradition, and then has exited from it and has chosen another tradition. We also know that there are many cases where people have been persuaded, forced, and even persecuted to exit from traditions into which they are born. There are such cases, of course. There are examples of persons sitting right here that I know of where one has been born in a specific religious tradition, into a tradition, and then has exited from it and has chosen another tradition. We also know that there are many cases where people have been persuaded, forced, and even persecuted to exit from traditions into which they are born.

7:52 But even in such endeavors, would we really not hesitate to call that these are cases of deliberate choice? But even in such endeavors, would we really not hesitate to call that these are cases of deliberate choice?

8:02 In other words, wherever there is no real option before us, there is no question of exercising choice. In other words, wherever there is no real option before us, there is no question of exercising choice.

8:08 Thus, to start with, this is my humble submission, that we are born into a given religious tradition, Thus, to start with, this is my humble submission, that we are born into a given religious tradition,

8:15 and this is not a case of choosing. and this is not a case of choosing.

8:21 I assume, like most of us present here, that to be the case for all four of them: I assume, like most of us present here, that to be the case for all four of them:

8:28 born as a Hindu, born as a Buddhist, born as a Christian, and born as a Muslim. born as a Hindu, born as a Buddhist, born as a Christian, and born as a Muslim.

8:35 May I ask whether this is a correct assumption on my part to all of you? Is this a correct assumption? Particularly important to be reborn as a Muslim. Not very sure. Let me first say now that I am truly honored for having this opportunity to share the stage with you four. May I ask whether this is a correct assumption on my part to all of you? Is this a correct assumption? Particularly important to be reborn as a Muslim. Not very sure. Let me first say now that I am truly honored for having this opportunity to share the stage with you four.

9:02 You have before you my four clusters of questions that are the same as those that were sent to you, and I request that each one of you respond to the same questions or questions, but only from the vantage point of your own tradition. You have before you my four clusters of questions that are the same as those that were sent to you, and I request that each one of you respond to the same questions or questions, but only from the vantage point of your own tradition.

9:22 Do not represent anybody else. Do not represent anybody else.

9:28 Let this be an opportunity for all of us to start from the scratch. Let this be an opportunity for all of us to start from the scratch.

9:35 Every time I read out one of these four clusters of questions, I will indicate whom I prefer Every time I read out one of these four clusters of questions, I will indicate whom I prefer

9:42 would be the first respondent. would be the first respondent.

9:49 Otherwise, please feel free to volunteer. Otherwise, please feel free to volunteer.

9:55 Please take your time, fully utilize five to six minutes for each cluster of questions, and please let Please take your time, fully utilize five to six minutes for each cluster of questions, and please let

10:02 us benefit from your knowledge. us benefit from your knowledge.

10:09 This means altogether you are having 24 to 25 minutes each for answering all the four clusters of questions. This means altogether you are having 24 to 25 minutes each for answering all the four clusters of questions.

10:16 Friends, we are now going to listen from practitioners who are also all authors who have very ably Friends, we are now going to listen from practitioners who are also all authors who have very ably

10:23 propagated the core ideas of their respective traditions. propagated the core ideas of their respective traditions.

10:29 Now, my first of the four clusters of questions. Now, my first of the four clusters of questions.

10:36 Let me say at the outset that I would request His Holiness the Dalai Lama to be the Let me say at the outset that I would request His Holiness the Dalai Lama to be the

10:43 first respondent once I read out and share these questions with the members of the audience. first respondent once I read out and share these questions with the members of the audience.

10:50 Number one: What do you consider to be the principal teaching of your tradition? Number one: What do you consider to be the principal teaching of your tradition?

10:57 What is it that has especially inspired you most, impelling you to serve your tradition all throughout your life, that we cannot simply attribute to the fact of your being connected with it by the accident of birth? What is it that has especially inspired you most, impelling you to serve your tradition all throughout your life, that we cannot simply attribute to the fact of your being connected with it by the accident of birth?

11:16 But we'll be willing to grant that it could just as well be the case had it been a matter of deliberate choice. In other words, is there a central message that is specific to your tradition that you wish to share with the entire humanity because you firmly believe that we will all live in a better world if we pay heed to it? But we'll be willing to grant that it could just as well be the case had it been a matter of deliberate choice. In other words, is there a central message that is specific to your tradition that you wish to share with the entire humanity because you firmly believe that we will all live in a better world if we pay heed to it?

11:45 His Holiness. Respected spiritual brothers and sisters, and some of among the audience, some of you, I think a long time our friend. His Holiness. Respected spiritual brothers and sisters, and some of among the audience, some of you, I think a long time our friend.

12:01 So indeed, I'm very happy having this opportunity. So indeed, I'm very happy having this opportunity.

12:08 Now, I'm one Tibetan. Now, I'm one Tibetan.

12:16 Since the seventh century, and particularly the eighth century and ninth century, then Buddhism very much flourished in Since the seventh century, and particularly the eighth century and ninth century, then Buddhism very much flourished in

12:24 Tibet, and particularly the Nalanda tradition. Tibet, and particularly the Nalanda tradition.

12:32 So that means on the basis of Bali tradition, there's mainly Vinaya practice, the monastics of system, discipline, and then on top of that, Sanskrit tradition. So that means on the basis of Bali tradition, there's mainly Vinaya practice, the monastics of system, discipline, and then on top of that, Sanskrit tradition.

12:49 There are a lot of sort of philosophical sort of ideas or practice there, including some yoga practice. That means there's a Tantra practice, some yogas, but these things also should be there. But of course, certainly, my parent not at all educated person, but farmer. There are a lot of sort of philosophical sort of ideas or practice there, including some yoga practice. That means there's a Tantra practice, some yogas, but these things also should be there. But of course, certainly, my parent not at all educated person, but farmer.

13:17 I think my father knows better the variety of horses rather than Dharma. In an early period, when you see people choose me as the reincarnation of Dalai Lama, I compare to study Buddhist Dharma, but with great reluctance. I think my father knows better the variety of horses rather than Dharma. In an early period, when you see people choose me as the reincarnation of Dalai Lama, I compare to study Buddhist Dharma, but with great reluctance.

13:41 I have no interest, but compulsory. Then I think eventually, you see, more study. The Buddhists, particularly the Nalanda tradition, not emphasis on faith, but emphasis on reasoning, experiment. I have no interest, but compulsory. Then I think eventually, you see, more study. The Buddhists, particularly the Nalanda tradition, not emphasis on faith, but emphasis on reasoning, experiment.

14:07 So Buddha himself, you see, state, "Oh, my follower should not accept my teaching out of faith, but rather investigation and experiment." So meantime, I also see develop interest about technology and science. So Buddha himself, you see, state, "Oh, my follower should not accept my teaching out of faith, but rather investigation and experiment." So meantime, I also see develop interest about technology and science.

14:33 So you see, more my nature always curiosity, always curiosity since childhood. So you see, more my nature always curiosity, always curiosity since childhood.

14:38 So you see, more investigation, more thinking, and also observe. So you see, more investigation, more thinking, and also observe.

14:44 World, a lot of problems, essentially. World, a lot of problems, essentially.

14:50 Many of these problems are our own creation. Many of these problems are our own creation.

14:55 No one wants a problem. No one wants a problem.

15:01 But problem, many problems, we are self-created. But problem, many problems, we are self-created.

15:07 Then big question, why? Then big question, why?

15:13 Too much self-centered attitude, and then lack of holistic view. Too much self-centered attitude, and then lack of holistic view.

15:19 So now means so therefore, one of the, I think, Buddhist sort of concept, the Bhuttid Samopad, you So now means so therefore, one of the, I think, Buddhist sort of concept, the Bhuttid Samopad, you

15:26 know, Bhuttid Samopad, everything interdependent. know, Bhuttid Samopad, everything interdependent.

15:32 So that concept gives us holistic view. So that concept gives us holistic view.

15:39 Some event, not absolute, not independent, but this event, good or bad, happened because of this factor, because Some event, not absolute, not independent, but this event, good or bad, happened because of this factor, because

15:45 of that factor. of that factor.

15:52 So that always brings us holistic view. It's quite useful to reduce narrow-mindedness. So that always brings us holistic view. It's quite useful to reduce narrow-mindedness.

16:01 Then, other hand, the altruistic sort of practice, altruism, sense of concern of others' well-being. Then, other hand, the altruistic sort of practice, altruism, sense of concern of others' well-being.

16:07 So that direct sort of antidote to reduce self-centered attitude. So that direct sort of antidote to reduce self-centered attitude.

16:14 So this is practice. So this is practice.

16:20 This seems good, useful. This seems good, useful.

16:27 Meantime, you see, this also immense help to understand other traditions. Meantime, you see, this also immense help to understand other traditions.

16:33 Inspired to different philosophical views, all major religious traditions talk practice of love, compassion, with that forgiveness, tolerance, Inspired to different philosophical views, all major religious traditions talk practice of love, compassion, with that forgiveness, tolerance,

16:40 and for individual contentment, self-discipline. and for individual contentment, self-discipline.

16:46 All major religious traditions carry the same message. All major religious traditions carry the same message.

16:53 In order to strengthen these sort of practices, use different philosophy. In order to strengthen these sort of practices, use different philosophy.

16:59 Different philosophy is necessary. Different philosophy is necessary.

17:06 Among humanity, there are so many different methods of position. Among humanity, there are so many different methods of position.

17:13 Even within Buddha's own sort of student, there are different methods of position. Even within Buddha's own sort of student, there are different methods of position.

17:19 Therefore, Buddha taught different contradictory philosophy. Therefore, Buddha taught different contradictory philosophy.

17:24 I often see telling people, "The contradictory philosophy comes from the same teacher, not due to Buddha's own I often see telling people, "The contradictory philosophy comes from the same teacher, not due to Buddha's own

17:30 confusion in his mind." One day he taught some different philosophy. confusion in his mind." One day he taught some different philosophy.

17:36 The next day, next audience, another sort of this is not due to his own confusion. The next day, next audience, another sort of this is not due to his own confusion.

17:41 Nor he deliberately tried to create more confusion among his followers. No. Nor he deliberately tried to create more confusion among his followers. No.

17:47 Then the answer is, it's necessary. Then the answer is, it's necessary.

17:53 Different methods of position, so different way of approach is very necessary. Different methods of position, so different way of approach is very necessary.

17:59 There's immense help for me to understand different traditions. There's immense help for me to understand different traditions.

18:04 The theistic religion, non-theistic religion, within-theistic religion, differences there. The theistic religion, non-theistic religion, within-theistic religion, differences there.

18:10 Non-theistic religions, also you see, differences there. Non-theistic religions, also you see, differences there.

18:16 It's necessary in order to fulfill the variety of people's wish. It's necessary in order to fulfill the variety of people's wish.

18:22 Thank you. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Thank you. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim.

18:32 I was born in a Muslim family. I was born in a Muslim family.

18:43 My education, my upbringing was on the traditional lines. My education, my upbringing was on the traditional lines.

18:54 But when I reached the age of maturity, I developed doubts. But when I reached the age of maturity, I developed doubts.

19:04 I discovered that I am a seeker and was sad with that version of Islam that I experienced I discovered that I am a seeker and was sad with that version of Islam that I experienced

19:15 in masjid, in madrasa, and in Muslim society. in masjid, in madrasa, and in Muslim society.

19:26 It was a very tragic moment for me. It was a very tragic moment for me.

19:36 Then unbelievably, an event happened. Then unbelievably, an event happened.

19:47 At that time, I decided to study all those literatures about religion, spirituality, philosophy, to discover the answer At that time, I decided to study all those literatures about religion, spirituality, philosophy, to discover the answer

19:58 of my nature. of my nature.

20:08 It is very interesting that at this juncture, I read some of Swami Vivekananda's work, especially letters of Swami Vivekananda. It is very interesting that at this juncture, I read some of Swami Vivekananda's work, especially letters of Swami Vivekananda.

20:19 In this book, there is a letter number 175. In this book, there is a letter number 175.

20:30 In this letter, Swamiji has mentioned Islam in very shiny words, very shiny words. This triggered my mind. This mention of Swami Vivekananda triggered my mind. I decided to restudy Islam. In this letter, Swamiji has mentioned Islam in very shiny words, very shiny words. This triggered my mind. This mention of Swami Vivekananda triggered my mind. I decided to restudy Islam.

20:54 It was a very interesting study. It was a very interesting study.

21:02 So what happened after a long study of Quran and Sunnah, another relevant literature, I discovered that Islam So what happened after a long study of Quran and Sunnah, another relevant literature, I discovered that Islam

21:11 was my choice, although it was not my birth religion. was my choice, although it was not my birth religion.

21:20 I can say that I am not a Muslim by birth, but I am a Muslim by choice. I can say that I am not a Muslim by birth, but I am a Muslim by choice.

21:29 And here I would like to mention that Swami Vivekananda is my benefactor. And here I would like to mention that Swami Vivekananda is my benefactor.

21:38 I can say that Swamiji is my benefactor. He gave me a very important clue at that time because I am a very rational person, very rational. I can say that Swamiji is my benefactor. He gave me a very important clue at that time because I am a very rational person, very rational.

21:56 I try to reason out everything. I try to reason out everything.

22:03 So due to this mindset, I became dissatisfied with the prevalent version of Islam and also prevalent although So due to this mindset, I became dissatisfied with the prevalent version of Islam and also prevalent although

22:11 the Muslim society. the Muslim society.

22:19 But after a long study, I discovered that there's a difference between Islam and Muslims. But after a long study, I discovered that there's a difference between Islam and Muslims.

22:27 I was confused between the two. I was confused between the two.

22:35 Before this study, I was confused between the two. Before this study, I was confused between the two.

22:43 After this study, I discovered that there's a difference between Islam and Muslims. After this study, I discovered that there's a difference between Islam and Muslims.

22:51 If you want to know what is Islam, you have to differentiate between the two. If you want to know what is Islam, you have to differentiate between the two.

22:59 You have to judge Muslims in the light of Islamic teachings and not vice versa. You have to judge Muslims in the light of Islamic teachings and not vice versa.

23:07 Now, what I discovered during this study, I discovered that there are two basic tenets in Islam, basic tenets. Now, what I discovered during this study, I discovered that there are two basic tenets in Islam, basic tenets.

23:15 One is that man should make God his sole concern. One is that man should make God his sole concern.

23:23 God is our sole concern. God is our sole concern.

23:28 We have to make Him our sole concern. We have to make Him our sole concern.

23:34 And the other is that well-wishing to all mankind, well-wishing to all mankind. And the other is that well-wishing to all mankind, well-wishing to all mankind.

23:40 These are the two basic tenets of Islam. These are the two basic tenets of Islam.

23:45 And this addressed by nature. And this addressed by nature.

23:51 In this, I found my Creator. In this, I found my Creator.

23:57 Also, I found the purpose of my life, why I'm here, why I was settled in this planet Also, I found the purpose of my life, why I'm here, why I was settled in this planet

24:03 Earth, why God Almighty created me. Earth, why God Almighty created me.

24:10 All these answers were, all these questions were answered. All these answers were, all these questions were answered.

24:17 So I can say that I am not a Muslim by birth, but a Muslim by choice. So I can say that I am not a Muslim by birth, but a Muslim by choice.

24:24 And Swami Vivekananda is my benefactor. And Swami Vivekananda is my benefactor.

24:31 I can say that Swami Vivekananda is my spiritual guru. Good morning. I can say that Swami Vivekananda is my spiritual guru. Good morning.

24:42 I am Christian because I was born into a Christian family and like others, wandered away from my I am Christian because I was born into a Christian family and like others, wandered away from my

24:53 faith, but only very slightly. faith, but only very slightly.

25:04 And I would say the tenet of my faith that holds me to my faith is that tenet of incarnation, that God became human and dwelt among us in human form in the form of Jesus Christ. And I would say the tenet of my faith that holds me to my faith is that tenet of incarnation, that God became human and dwelt among us in human form in the form of Jesus Christ.

25:25 And the reason that that is so crucial and important and central to me is because what it And the reason that that is so crucial and important and central to me is because what it

25:34 says to me is that our bodies matter, that our bodies are not an irrelevancy, our bodies are says to me is that our bodies matter, that our bodies are not an irrelevancy, our bodies are

25:44 not a prison for our spirits, but that there is something very particular, very holy about our humanity, not a prison for our spirits, but that there is something very particular, very holy about our humanity,

25:53 about our human form. about our human form.

26:03 And when I examine the scriptures of our faith, the question that we are asked at the end And when I examine the scriptures of our faith, the question that we are asked at the end

26:13 of time when God comes to judge us is not the question of how many hours did you of time when God comes to judge us is not the question of how many hours did you

26:24 spend in prayer or what was your liturgical practice, but did you clothe the naked, did you feed spend in prayer or what was your liturgical practice, but did you clothe the naked, did you feed

26:34 the hungry, did you visit the prisoner, did you care for the sick. the hungry, did you visit the prisoner, did you care for the sick.

26:45 And those questions, that kind of ultimacy is what holds me to this faith, that keeping my eye And those questions, that kind of ultimacy is what holds me to this faith, that keeping my eye

26:58 on the eternal, yes, but I am required by my faith to act in the present reality with on the eternal, yes, but I am required by my faith to act in the present reality with

27:11 eternity in mind. Thank you. eternity in mind. Thank you.

27:24 Thank you, Your Holiness Maulana Sahib, the Reverend. Thank you, Your Holiness Maulana Sahib, the Reverend.

27:28 The principal teaching of my tradition, I was born, of course, a Hindu, but Hinduism is a very The principal teaching of my tradition, I was born, of course, a Hindu, but Hinduism is a very

27:33 broad and diffuse creed. broad and diffuse creed.

27:38 You can choose almost any path thereafter. You can choose almost any path thereafter.

27:43 But I became a Vedantin and a Shiva Bhakta later on as I developed. But I became a Vedantin and a Shiva Bhakta later on as I developed.

27:48 So my philosophy is Vedanta. So my philosophy is Vedanta.

27:53 My devotion is to Shiva. My devotion is to Shiva.

27:58 But let me say, you've asked what the principal teachings are of the Hindu tradition. But let me say, you've asked what the principal teachings are of the Hindu tradition.

28:03 I would say there are three main teachings. I would say there are three main teachings.

28:09 First, the existence of what we call the Brahman, which is everything that exists, everything that has ever First, the existence of what we call the Brahman, which is everything that exists, everything that has ever

28:16 existed, or everything that will exist is permeated by, illuminated by the divine force. existed, or everything that will exist is permeated by, illuminated by the divine force.

28:22 We feel that the whole creation, so the Big Bang, if it took place, was not only an We feel that the whole creation, so the Big Bang, if it took place, was not only an

28:29 explosion of light, not only an explosion of energy, but an explosion of consciousness. explosion of light, not only an explosion of energy, but an explosion of consciousness.

28:36 And that consciousness pervades the entire universe and will continue to do so. That is Brahman. The second principal concept is the Atman, that that all-pervasive Brahman has a place in the heart of each one of us. And that consciousness pervades the entire universe and will continue to do so. That is Brahman. The second principal concept is the Atman, that that all-pervasive Brahman has a place in the heart of each one of us.

28:53 And whatever our caste, whatever our religion, whatever our philosophy, whatever our ideology may be, each human being And whatever our caste, whatever our religion, whatever our philosophy, whatever our ideology may be, each human being

28:59 encapsulates a spark of the divine that we call the Atman. encapsulates a spark of the divine that we call the Atman.

29:05 In fact, everything encapsulates the divine. In fact, everything encapsulates the divine.

29:12 But as we go up the evolutionary chain, it is only when we reach the human birth that But as we go up the evolutionary chain, it is only when we reach the human birth that

29:18 we can become aware of the fact that there is a divinity within us and there's a divinity out. we can become aware of the fact that there is a divinity within us and there's a divinity out.

29:25 And the third concept is joining these two. Joining the word yoga, as you know, comes from the root of the English word yoga, joining the Atman and the Brahman. That is the goal of human life. And there are four main paths to do that. There is a Jnana Yoga, the way of wisdom. And the third concept is joining these two. Joining the word yoga, as you know, comes from the root of the English word yoga, joining the Atman and the Brahman. That is the goal of human life. And there are four main paths to do that. There is a Jnana Yoga, the way of wisdom.

29:46 In the West, it would be like the way of Plato, looking at the reality that is behind outer events, and not only the events themselves. That is the Jnana Yoga, studying the Upanishads, studying the classics, and so on. In the West, it would be like the way of Plato, looking at the reality that is behind outer events, and not only the events themselves. That is the Jnana Yoga, studying the Upanishads, studying the classics, and so on.

30:06 Then there's the Bhakti Yoga, which is the way of devotion, whether that devotion is to Jesus Christ Then there's the Bhakti Yoga, which is the way of devotion, whether that devotion is to Jesus Christ

30:12 or to the Buddha or to your guru or to any other form of the divinity. or to the Buddha or to your guru or to any other form of the divinity.

30:18 Then there is the Karma Yoga, which is the way of works dedicated to the divine, not just Then there is the Karma Yoga, which is the way of works dedicated to the divine, not just

30:24 any works, but the sort of work that the Atma Mission is doing or Mother Teresa was doing any works, but the sort of work that the Atma Mission is doing or Mother Teresa was doing

30:31 or the Ramakrishna Mission is doing, really dedicated and devoted works to the divine. or the Ramakrishna Mission is doing, really dedicated and devoted works to the divine.

30:37 And the fourth is Raja Yoga, which is the royal path, which involves our breathing, pranayama, our posture, And the fourth is Raja Yoga, which is the royal path, which involves our breathing, pranayama, our posture,

30:43 what His Holiness mentioned, all the practices that had to go into the development. what His Holiness mentioned, all the practices that had to go into the development.

30:50 So these are four main highways of joining the Atman and the Brahman. And we can adopt one or more of these paths and pathways. And by doing so, we can use this life, which is a rare opportunity for spiritual growth. We can use it to move upwards on the spiritual spirit. So these are four main highways of joining the Atman and the Brahman. And we can adopt one or more of these paths and pathways. And by doing so, we can use this life, which is a rare opportunity for spiritual growth. We can use it to move upwards on the spiritual spirit.

31:17 In our collective existence, we see that these facts of religious affiliation have had actually dual impact, benevolent and pernicious, be that in the history of two denominations of the same tradition or when the religious context is definitively plural in character. In our collective existence, we see that these facts of religious affiliation have had actually dual impact, benevolent and pernicious, be that in the history of two denominations of the same tradition or when the religious context is definitively plural in character.

31:41 Swamiji said, Swami Vivekananda, "No other human motive has deluged the world with blood so much as religion. Swamiji said, Swami Vivekananda, "No other human motive has deluged the world with blood so much as religion.

31:47 At the same time, no other human influence has taken such care not only of humanity, but also At the same time, no other human influence has taken such care not only of humanity, but also

31:53 of the lowest of animals as religion has done. of the lowest of animals as religion has done.

31:59 Nothing makes us so cruel as religion. Nothing makes us so cruel as religion.

32:05 Nothing makes us so tender as religion." Now, you know we have seen this cruel aspect has been Nothing makes us so tender as religion." Now, you know we have seen this cruel aspect has been

32:11 played out in such gruesome manner in the name of religious identity that we really need to understand played out in such gruesome manner in the name of religious identity that we really need to understand

32:17 what makes that possible, what is at the root of it. what makes that possible, what is at the root of it.

32:24 I have said at the beginning that we draw a sense of collective identity from our religions. I have said at the beginning that we draw a sense of collective identity from our religions.

32:32 Let me now ask, what is entailed in the teachings of these diverse traditions, explicitly or implicitly, that Let me now ask, what is entailed in the teachings of these diverse traditions, explicitly or implicitly, that

32:40 influence us to construe the otherness of other traditions in specific ways that has impact on those whom influence us to construe the otherness of other traditions in specific ways that has impact on those whom

32:48 we do not perceive to be the members of our own religious community? we do not perceive to be the members of our own religious community?

32:57 So my second cluster of questions to you is, what is the status of the other in the philosophy of religion of your own tradition? So my second cluster of questions to you is, what is the status of the other in the philosophy of religion of your own tradition?

33:09 What is the explicit or implicit teaching that is bound to influence the attitude of members of your What is the explicit or implicit teaching that is bound to influence the attitude of members of your

33:16 own community as and when they invariably encounter these others, that is, those who happen to derive their own community as and when they invariably encounter these others, that is, those who happen to derive their

33:23 sense of religious identity from sources other than your own, that they are to be gradually vanquished, to sense of religious identity from sources other than your own, that they are to be gradually vanquished, to

33:30 be eventually converted for the sake of their own good, that those who are reluctant to do so be eventually converted for the sake of their own good, that those who are reluctant to do so

33:37 are to be perceived as doomed or at best to be situated at a lower level in the are to be perceived as doomed or at best to be situated at a lower level in the

33:44 hierarchy and somehow tolerated? hierarchy and somehow tolerated?

33:51 In other words, the question is whether it is possible for us to be more inclusive. Can these others be at all accepted as followers of a distinctly different path, yet recognizably a legitimate path? If yes, on what ground? In other words, the question is whether it is possible for us to be more inclusive. Can these others be at all accepted as followers of a distinctly different path, yet recognizably a legitimate path? If yes, on what ground?

34:10 I think I already answered. I think I already answered.

34:16 There's a right of people there. There's a right of people there.

34:22 Then perhaps I may add one thing. Then perhaps I may add one thing.

34:29 Recently, I saw one report. Recently, I saw one report.

34:35 Out of seven billion human beings, about one billion actually non-believers. Out of seven billion human beings, about one billion actually non-believers.

34:42 So now, my sort of main for today, main effort, of course, I'm Buddhist. My daily practice is according to Buddhism. But I never try to propagate Buddhism. Of course, among Buddhists, of course, it is my sort of responsibility, my duty to explain what is Buddhism. So now, my sort of main for today, main effort, of course, I'm Buddhist. My daily practice is according to Buddhism. But I never try to propagate Buddhism. Of course, among Buddhists, of course, it is my sort of responsibility, my duty to explain what is Buddhism.

35:11 That also, till someone asks you, "Please explain Buddhism." Otherwise, the Vinaya Sutra clearly mentioned, unless someone asks you the teaching, otherwise, you should not teach. So that means respect, individual sort of what's their right. That also, till someone asks you, "Please explain Buddhism." Otherwise, the Vinaya Sutra clearly mentioned, unless someone asks you the teaching, otherwise, you should not teach. So that means respect, individual sort of what's their right.

35:38 So then, realistically speaking, of course, on this planet, there are so many different traditions there. So then, realistically speaking, of course, on this planet, there are so many different traditions there.

35:48 When Buddha comes or Mahavira comes, already some different traditions already exist. When Buddha comes or Mahavira comes, already some different traditions already exist.

35:58 See, Buddha and Mahavira never tried to convert all Indians. See, Buddha and Mahavira never tried to convert all Indians.

36:09 Did convert many of them, though? Oh? Did convert many of them, though? Oh?

36:12 Did convert many of them? Did convert many of them?

36:16 All his followers were Hindus? All his followers were Hindus?

36:20 So now today, it is fact. So now today, it is fact.

36:24 There are so many religious traditions there in the Arab area, in this, in many other areas, large There are so many religious traditions there in the Arab area, in this, in many other areas, large

36:28 number of Muslims. number of Muslims.

36:32 In the West, whole Westerns are Judo Christian background. In the West, whole Westerns are Judo Christian background.

36:36 It actually, you see, brought sort of what's it there? It actually, you see, brought sort of what's it there?

36:40 Tremendous sort of, I think, help, provide hope, particularly when individuals pass through difficulties. Tremendous sort of, I think, help, provide hope, particularly when individuals pass through difficulties.

36:47 But quite often, including Buddhist, when you are quite lucky, don't forget about religion. But quite often, including Buddhist, when you are quite lucky, don't forget about religion.

36:55 Then sometimes our destructive emotion becomes like God. Then sometimes our destructive emotion becomes like God.

37:03 So therefore, it's so many sort of what's it there? So therefore, it's so many sort of what's it there?

37:11 What's it there? Problems that actually we created. Too much greed, too much anger, too much suspicion. All this, lack of practice of compassion, forgiveness. What's it there? Problems that actually we created. Too much greed, too much anger, too much suspicion. All this, lack of practice of compassion, forgiveness.

37:28 So in any way, all these major religious traditions, in the past few thousand years, they helped humanity. And today also, millions of people get immense inspiration in the future. I think at least a few centuries will remain like that. So in any way, all these major religious traditions, in the past few thousand years, they helped humanity. And today also, millions of people get immense inspiration in the future. I think at least a few centuries will remain like that.

37:46 And after that, nobody knows. And after that, nobody knows.

37:51 So that's the reality. So that's the reality.

37:56 So I always see what's it there? So I always see what's it there?

38:02 Express conversion is not good. Express conversion is not good.

38:07 One side, there are a number of sort of Buddhists, Tibetan Buddhist centers in the West. One side, there are a number of sort of Buddhists, Tibetan Buddhist centers in the West.

38:12 I'm always telling them, should not sort of propagate Buddhism. I'm always telling them, should not sort of propagate Buddhism.

38:18 Only those people, those individuals who really came to know something about Buddhism, then okay. Actually, you see, one our friend, one German businessman, you see, wanted to build one sort of meditation center in France. Then I told him, this is not right. Only those people, those individuals who really came to know something about Buddhism, then okay. Actually, you see, one our friend, one German businessman, you see, wanted to build one sort of meditation center in France. Then I told him, this is not right.

38:44 Not right, please. This is a Judo Christian country. So if you really want to build such sort of Buddhist meditation sort of center, then should sort of construct either in Thailand or Burma or even India. Okay. Like that. So individual sort of wish, individual sort of what's it there? Right. It's very, very essential. Not right, please. This is a Judo Christian country. So if you really want to build such sort of Buddhist meditation sort of center, then should sort of construct either in Thailand or Burma or even India. Okay. Like that. So individual sort of wish, individual sort of what's it there? Right. It's very, very essential.

39:13 Then now, the question of non-believer. Then now, the question of non-believer.

39:19 I think non-believer will increase. I think non-believer will increase.

39:26 So these non-believer are also part of humanity. So these non-believer are also part of humanity.

39:33 They also have every right to be a happy person, to be a sensible person in the human community. They also have every right to be a happy person, to be a sensible person in the human community.

39:40 So now, without touching religion, usually I say secular ethics, not talking about God, not talking about Buddha, So now, without touching religion, usually I say secular ethics, not talking about God, not talking about Buddha,

39:47 simply according to our common experience, common sense. simply according to our common experience, common sense.

39:54 Common experience means we everybody, you see, come or born from mother. Common experience means we everybody, you see, come or born from mother.

40:01 The Raja, also you see, born that way. The Raja, also you see, born that way.

40:08 Me as a patient child, also born that way. Me as a patient child, also born that way.

40:15 And you too, also. And you too, also.

40:22 I think you, fortunately, Bishop Tutu, wonderful father. I think you, fortunately, Bishop Tutu, wonderful father.

40:29 So the real sort of way of birth, same way. So the real sort of way of birth, same way.

40:36 And then everybody, perhaps I think now I want to tease, you see, my longtime friend, perhaps the And then everybody, perhaps I think now I want to tease, you see, my longtime friend, perhaps the

40:43 patient child, more closer relation with their own mother rather than Raja's sort of son. patient child, more closer relation with their own mother rather than Raja's sort of son.

40:50 The Rani remained there and someone, you see, taking care. So from that viewpoint, ordinary, simple villagers, more advanced. The Rani remained there and someone, you see, taking care. So from that viewpoint, ordinary, simple villagers, more advanced.

41:01 So in any way, that is extremely important. Mother's affection, mother's own milk. You see, grown up full of care, affection, full of mother. So that experience remains in deep of blood, till our death. So in any way, that is extremely important. Mother's affection, mother's own milk. You see, grown up full of care, affection, full of mother. So that experience remains in deep of blood, till our death.

41:27 So I think in this whole, those I think outwardly, everybody very smart. But in deep insight, those individuals who received maximum affection when you are young, I think deep insight, much happier, much safer. Then those individuals today, very, very successful. So I think in this whole, those I think outwardly, everybody very smart. But in deep insight, those individuals who received maximum affection when you are young, I think deep insight, much happier, much safer. Then those individuals today, very, very successful.

41:52 But at the time of young age, lack of affection from mother or without mother or born as But at the time of young age, lack of affection from mother or without mother or born as

41:58 an unwanted child or abuse. an unwanted child or abuse.

42:05 Then such person, outwardly, very smart, but deep insight, sense of insecurity there. Then such person, outwardly, very smart, but deep insight, sense of insecurity there.

42:12 So that's our common experience. So that's our common experience.

42:19 So now important is we must remind people, human affection, human compassion is so important, even health viewpoint. So now important is we must remind people, human affection, human compassion is so important, even health viewpoint.

42:26 Now, medical scientists, now they clearly sort of mentioned the constant fear, constant anger, hatred, actually eating our immune system. More calm mind, peaceful mind is a very important factor to sustain our immune system. You just mentioned, you see, my face, you see, looks what's it say? Now, medical scientists, now they clearly sort of mentioned the constant fear, constant anger, hatred, actually eating our immune system. More calm mind, peaceful mind is a very important factor to sustain our immune system. You just mentioned, you see, my face, you see, looks what's it say?

42:54 Healthy. So I think through, you see, through my own experience, I think calm mind, even though the situation is quite subtle, difficult. But you can keep your mind peaceful. Healthy. So I think through, you see, through my own experience, I think calm mind, even though the situation is quite subtle, difficult. But you can keep your mind peaceful.

43:22 So that really immense benefit for good health. So that really immense benefit for good health.

43:30 So sometimes some scientists, when we have some sort of discussions, they say, "Healthy body, healthy mind." It's So sometimes some scientists, when we have some sort of discussions, they say, "Healthy body, healthy mind." It's

43:39 not sufficient just taking care about healthy because of the body's health, medicine, injection. No. not sufficient just taking care about healthy because of the body's health, medicine, injection. No.

43:48 The ultimate sort of source of healthy body is peace of mind. The ultimate sort of source of healthy body is peace of mind.

43:57 So that we can educate non-believer. Not important to become religious mind, but remain warm-hearted person, more compassionate person. So that we can educate non-believer. Not important to become religious mind, but remain warm-hearted person, more compassionate person.

44:14 That's their only interest, not for next life. That's their only interest, not for next life.

44:20 But this very life, day-to-day's life, more compassionate mind here. But this very life, day-to-day's life, more compassionate mind here.

44:27 And take more sort of sense of concern of others' well-being. And take more sort of sense of concern of others' well-being.

44:34 Then no room to harm other, to cheat other, to bully other. No. Then no room to harm other, to cheat other, to bully other. No.

44:41 Actually, you take sincere care of their well-being. Actually, you take sincere care of their well-being.

44:47 So automatically, thousand-year-old Indian tradition, non-violence, you see, the very basis of non-violence is compassion, take care of their well-being. So automatically, thousand-year-old Indian tradition, non-violence, you see, the very basis of non-violence is compassion, take care of their well-being.

44:54 Then no room to harm them. Then no room to harm them.

45:01 So ahimsa, ahimsa, not out of sort of weakness or out of indifference. So ahimsa, ahimsa, not out of sort of weakness or out of indifference.

45:08 No. Non-violence, ahimsa, you have the ability to harm. But you respect their life, respect their right. So deliberately wristing honey, that's non-violence. No. Non-violence, ahimsa, you have the ability to harm. But you respect their life, respect their right. So deliberately wristing honey, that's non-violence.

45:27 But with non-violence there, with ahimsa practice there, then religious harmony automatically comes because you respect. The followers of other religions, their right. But with non-violence there, with ahimsa practice there, then religious harmony automatically comes because you respect. The followers of other religions, their right.

45:41 So therefore, I think, I feel compassion, human affection. So therefore, I think, I feel compassion, human affection.

45:45 Sometimes I call universal religion. Sometimes I call universal religion.

45:50 No need complicated philosophy. No need complicated philosophy.

45:54 Or creator or Buddha or karma. Karma something. Or creator or Buddha or karma. Karma something.

45:59 Karma means action. Karma means action.

46:03 So as you mentioned, karma yoga or something. So as you mentioned, karma yoga or something.

46:08 Oh, that action, you see, everything depends on our action. Oh, that action, you see, everything depends on our action.

46:12 Action depends motivation. Action depends motivation.

46:17 So that's my view. Too long. So that's my view. Too long.

46:22 Thank you. You know, Muslims generally divide the world between Muslims and non-Muslims, Muslim world and non-Muslim world. Thank you. You know, Muslims generally divide the world between Muslims and non-Muslims, Muslim world and non-Muslim world.

46:50 This kind of terminology is completely wrong on Islam. It has no basis in the Quran and Sunnah. If you read the Quran, you will find that Quran always uses the word insan, insan, insan. It means that. This kind of terminology is completely wrong on Islam. It has no basis in the Quran and Sunnah. If you read the Quran, you will find that Quran always uses the word insan, insan, insan. It means that.

47:12 That terms which were created by ulama in later period, Darul Islam and Darul Kufr was wrong. That terms which were created by ulama in later period, Darul Islam and Darul Kufr was wrong.

47:23 The real term is Darul Insan, Darul Insan, Darul Insan. The whole world is Darul Insan. So in this world, there is only one equation. There is man and God and not man and not Muslim and non-Muslim. The real term is Darul Insan, Darul Insan, Darul Insan. The whole world is Darul Insan. So in this world, there is only one equation. There is man and God and not man and not Muslim and non-Muslim.

47:44 There is no equation. The true equation, the right equation is creator or God or man. I'm a great believer in God. There is no equation. The true equation, the right equation is creator or God or man. I'm a great believer in God.

47:57 Also I'm a great believer in the oneness of humanity. Then I would like to say that they said in modern terms, several Muslim countries have adopted the term Islamic Jamaahiya, Islamic Jamaahiya. This term is completely wrong. Also I'm a great believer in the oneness of humanity. Then I would like to say that they said in modern terms, several Muslim countries have adopted the term Islamic Jamaahiya, Islamic Jamaahiya. This term is completely wrong.

48:26 You know, Prophet of Islam never used this term. Prophet of Islam or his khalifa never used the term Islamic Jamaahiya. So everyone, every bulk will be called with its natural name. By India, it's India. And England, it's England. And Iran, it's Iran. You know, Prophet of Islam never used this term. Prophet of Islam or his khalifa never used the term Islamic Jamaahiya. So everyone, every bulk will be called with its natural name. By India, it's India. And England, it's England. And Iran, it's Iran.

48:53 No country can be called Islamic Jamaahiya. No country can be called Islamic Jamaahiya.

48:58 This is wrong. This is wrong.

49:03 Then I would like to add that concept of perversion is alien to the Quran. Then I would like to add that concept of perversion is alien to the Quran.

49:08 I would like to say that if you want to know what is Islam, you have to read the Quran. I would like to say that if you want to know what is Islam, you have to read the Quran.

49:13 There are only two sources of Islam, that is Quran and Sunnah. There are only two sources of Islam, that is Quran and Sunnah.

49:18 So there is no concept of perversion has no basis in the Quran. So there is no concept of perversion has no basis in the Quran.

49:23 Quran uses ma'rifah. Quran uses ma'rifah.

49:29 Ma'rifah means realization, discovery. Ma'rifah means realization, discovery.

49:34 So truth is your own discovery. So truth is your own discovery.

49:39 Truth is your own realization. Truth is your own realization.

49:44 It is a personal choice. It is a personal choice.

49:49 If you want to know what is the purpose of life, what is the death and what is If you want to know what is the purpose of life, what is the death and what is

49:54 life, all those questions that are in your mind, if you want to understand about these questions, you life, all those questions that are in your mind, if you want to understand about these questions, you

50:00 have to study. have to study.

50:05 You have to discuss. You have to discuss.

50:10 And after discussion and study, you reach to some conclusion. And after discussion and study, you reach to some conclusion.

50:15 That is your religion. That is your religion.

50:20 So religion is your personal choice. So religion is your personal choice.

50:25 There is no concept of perversion in Islam. There is no concept of perversion in Islam.

50:31 In perversion, you know, there are two parties, converter and converted, two parties, converter and converted. But this is not the concept of Islam. In perversion, you know, there are two parties, converter and converted, two parties, converter and converted. But this is not the concept of Islam.

50:48 In Islam, there is only one party. There is you. If you want to know what is truth, you have to study on your own. And when you discover something as a truth, you have to ask for that. In Islam, there is only one party. There is you. If you want to know what is truth, you have to study on your own. And when you discover something as a truth, you have to ask for that.

51:02 Then there is a question. This world is full of differences. Everywhere there are differences. Among family members, there are differences. And in a society, there are differences. Even in one religion, there are differences. So what to do? Then there is a question. This world is full of differences. Everywhere there are differences. Among family members, there are differences. And in a society, there are differences. Even in one religion, there are differences. So what to do?

51:23 The best answer was given by Swami Yogananda. Follow one and hate none. Follow one and hate none. This answer is also mentioned in the Quran. Lakum dinukum wali adini. For you, your religion; for me, mine. So I have formulated this Quranic verse in these words. Follow one and respect all. The best answer was given by Swami Yogananda. Follow one and hate none. Follow one and hate none. This answer is also mentioned in the Quran. Lakum dinukum wali adini. For you, your religion; for me, mine. So I have formulated this Quranic verse in these words. Follow one and respect all.

51:53 Follow one and respect all. Follow one and respect all.

51:58 This is the only practical solution how to deal with differences. This is the only practical solution how to deal with differences.

52:04 We cannot eliminate differences. We cannot eliminate differences.

52:09 Difference are part of life. Difference are part of life.

52:15 So we have to manage differences rather than try to eliminate the differences. So we have to manage differences rather than try to eliminate the differences.

52:20 So best answer is that follow one and respect all. So best answer is that follow one and respect all.

52:26 Christianity has so much variety within itself. Christianity has so much variety within itself.

52:33 And the posture towards other has been contested since the beginning of Christianity. And the posture towards other has been contested since the beginning of Christianity.

52:41 Christianity began as a faith, a tradition, a path in the midst of being other. Christianity began as a faith, a tradition, a path in the midst of being other.

52:49 So the Christian tradition was born out of the Jewish faith and so stood in the posture of So the Christian tradition was born out of the Jewish faith and so stood in the posture of

52:56 being the other religion to a religion that already existed. being the other religion to a religion that already existed.

53:04 But then from that birth of being the other in the midst of a larger religious community has But then from that birth of being the other in the midst of a larger religious community has

53:12 not had a consistent posture. not had a consistent posture.

53:20 So you'll see in Paul's letters, his advice to Christian spouses of people who follow another faith tradition So you'll see in Paul's letters, his advice to Christian spouses of people who follow another faith tradition

53:30 that you can, by your good practice and your good personality and your good being, your good exercise that you can, by your good practice and your good personality and your good being, your good exercise

53:40 of your Christian faith, be an example for conversion of the other. of your Christian faith, be an example for conversion of the other.

53:50 And then you'll see in John's Gospels, in my father's house, there are many mansions or that I And then you'll see in John's Gospels, in my father's house, there are many mansions or that I

54:00 have other flocks that you know nothing about. have other flocks that you know nothing about.

54:10 And so there's this constant question of what is our posture as Christians to be in reference to And so there's this constant question of what is our posture as Christians to be in reference to

54:18 people of other faith traditions and faith expressions. people of other faith traditions and faith expressions.

54:27 For myself, I would say that my personal posture is that we have really no concept of the For myself, I would say that my personal posture is that we have really no concept of the

54:36 vastness of God. vastness of God.

54:45 And we have little understanding of how it is that God speaks into the hearts and into the lives of even the people who sit next to us, the people who are closest to us. And so there cannot be one-size-fits-all expression or experience of faith. And we have little understanding of how it is that God speaks into the hearts and into the lives of even the people who sit next to us, the people who are closest to us. And so there cannot be one-size-fits-all expression or experience of faith.

55:14 And so we have to stand in profound respect of the way that other people experience and express their faith. And so we have to stand in profound respect of the way that other people experience and express their faith.

55:30 In Hinduism, in the Upanishads, which are the high watermark of Hindu philosophy and the real fountain of In Hinduism, in the Upanishads, which are the high watermark of Hindu philosophy and the real fountain of

55:41 Hindu philosophy, it's very clear that there is no other. Hindu philosophy, it's very clear that there is no other.

55:53 Yasv So theoretically, in Hinduism, there is no other. Yasv So theoretically, in Hinduism, there is no other.

56:04 However, in actual practice, for various reasons, there have been othernesses. However, in actual practice, for various reasons, there have been othernesses.

56:16 First of all, within Hinduism itself, because with all this great philosophy, Hinduism was based on an extremely First of all, within Hinduism itself, because with all this great philosophy, Hinduism was based on an extremely

56:27 unjust and unfair social structure. unjust and unfair social structure.

56:39 The caste system, whatever the reason may be, that has come into being and that created an otherness. I am a Brahmin. You are a Kshatriya. You are a Shudra. Therefore, it's otherness. The caste system, whatever the reason may be, that has come into being and that created an otherness. I am a Brahmin. You are a Kshatriya. You are a Shudra. Therefore, it's otherness.

56:50 Secondly, the Muslims came to India in two different forms. Secondly, the Muslims came to India in two different forms.

56:55 Some of them came as Sufis, bringing the message of love and harmony. Some of them came as Sufis, bringing the message of love and harmony.

57:01 Like Maulana Sahib has said, the greatest Muslim shrines outside of Makkah, Madinah Sharif themselves are in India. Like Maulana Sahib has said, the greatest Muslim shrines outside of Makkah, Madinah Sharif themselves are in India.

57:07 Hazrat Salim Aba Chishti, Azmir Sharif Wale, Hazrat Nizamuddin next door to us here, these are all Muslim Hazrat Salim Aba Chishti, Azmir Sharif Wale, Hazrat Nizamuddin next door to us here, these are all Muslim

57:12 shrines in Kashmir. shrines in Kashmir.

57:18 They are full of shrines where we have worshipped all our lives. They are full of shrines where we have worshipped all our lives.

57:24 That is one incarnation of Hinduism. That is one incarnation of Hinduism.

57:30 However, the Muslims did come as invaders, as iconoclasts. They did kill vast numbers of people. They did break temples. They did have Holocaust. However, the Muslims did come as invaders, as iconoclasts. They did kill vast numbers of people. They did break temples. They did have Holocaust.

57:46 So as a result of that, there has been a very deep-seated, should we say, fear, antagonism, or So as a result of that, there has been a very deep-seated, should we say, fear, antagonism, or

57:51 some kind of reaction in the Hindu psyche. some kind of reaction in the Hindu psyche.

57:56 There's no use pretending that that is not the case. There's no use pretending that that is not the case.

58:02 That is the case as a result of historical circumstances. That is the case as a result of historical circumstances.

58:07 However, as we move on, we realize that whatever the geopolitical situation at that time may have been However, as we move on, we realize that whatever the geopolitical situation at that time may have been

58:12 and why the invasion took place and what happened, that is now something in the past. and why the invasion took place and what happened, that is now something in the past.

58:18 We have now got to move on back again to the Upanishadic concept of Ekatva. That is why all the Hindu social reformers, the first thing they attacked was the caste system. And that is why Swami Vivekananda was very eloquent. We have now got to move on back again to the Upanishadic concept of Ekatva. That is why all the Hindu social reformers, the first thing they attacked was the caste system. And that is why Swami Vivekananda was very eloquent.

58:34 He, in fact, talked, if you remember Maulana Sahib, your Holiness, he talked of an India with the He, in fact, talked, if you remember Maulana Sahib, your Holiness, he talked of an India with the

58:39 Islamic body and the Hindu brain. Islamic body and the Hindu brain.

58:45 You know, in other words, combining the sort of physical power and spiritual power. You know, in other words, combining the sort of physical power and spiritual power.

58:51 That was his famous articulation. That was his famous articulation.

58:57 So we have got to now put behind us the historical burden, the historical burden of class and So we have got to now put behind us the historical burden, the historical burden of class and

59:03 caste, and the historical burden of the iconoclasts. caste, and the historical burden of the iconoclasts.

59:09 And we've got to move onwards and regain the ancient concept of Ekatva. And we've got to move onwards and regain the ancient concept of Ekatva.

59:15 Thank you. Now let me move on to the next concern. Those who are familiar with Swamiji's writings know that in many places, he has pointed out how noble ideas get trivialized by people of sectarian mentality. He has joked about how, for example, the idea of universal brotherhood has been used by some Muslims and Christians. Thank you. Now let me move on to the next concern. Those who are familiar with Swamiji's writings know that in many places, he has pointed out how noble ideas get trivialized by people of sectarian mentality. He has joked about how, for example, the idea of universal brotherhood has been used by some Muslims and Christians.

59:45 However, when referring to failures and shortcomings of the Hindu community, he has expressed his disapproval in strongest However, when referring to failures and shortcomings of the Hindu community, he has expressed his disapproval in strongest

59:52 terms, sometimes even more harshly, even so harshly that it's difficult to believe, but always in all cases terms, sometimes even more harshly, even so harshly that it's difficult to believe, but always in all cases

1:00:00 with the intent of reminding the followers of specific traditions that they have to live up to the with the intent of reminding the followers of specific traditions that they have to live up to the

1:00:08 highest ideals of their own traditions, that their social practices and institutions have to comply with those ideals. highest ideals of their own traditions, that their social practices and institutions have to comply with those ideals.

1:00:16 So my third question to you all is this. So my third question to you all is this.

1:00:24 Now I will request you to take on a self-critical posture and tell us openly whether you have Now I will request you to take on a self-critical posture and tell us openly whether you have

1:00:32 noticed any event or a display of an attitude or an institutionalized custom or practice that has been noticed any event or a display of an attitude or an institutionalized custom or practice that has been

1:00:40 carried out in the past or is still in vogue in the name of your own religious tradition carried out in the past or is still in vogue in the name of your own religious tradition

1:00:48 that you avoid because you are convinced that no matter how that has come about, it is surely that you avoid because you are convinced that no matter how that has come about, it is surely

1:00:56 against the spirit of your tradition. against the spirit of your tradition.

1:01:04 Please give us at least one concrete example and then tell us what you think needs to be done in order to eradicate it or prevent it. Please give us at least one concrete example and then tell us what you think needs to be done in order to eradicate it or prevent it.

1:01:15 Now, frankly speaking, I think all major religious traditions, their followers, I think not many of their followers Now, frankly speaking, I think all major religious traditions, their followers, I think not many of their followers

1:01:25 are not very serious, not very sincere. are not very serious, not very sincere.

1:01:35 I think so. I think so.

1:01:45 And then another thing, I think various religious traditions, I think the people, because lack of knowledge, the And then another thing, I think various religious traditions, I think the people, because lack of knowledge, the

1:01:55 real sort of message of your own tradition, real practice of your sort of tradition, lack of knowledge real sort of message of your own tradition, real practice of your sort of tradition, lack of knowledge

1:02:05 that simply is carrying rituals and some sort of ceremony. that simply is carrying rituals and some sort of ceremony.

1:02:15 And for example, a Christian in the Sunday, service in any church, at that moment looks at everybody very serious. And for example, a Christian in the Sunday, service in any church, at that moment looks at everybody very serious.

1:02:25 Outside the church, simply they carry the usual way, bully, cheating. Outside the church, simply they carry the usual way, bully, cheating.

1:02:35 So these are people not very serious. So these are people not very serious.

1:02:45 Among Tibetan, among Buddhist also, you see, therefore, religion also becoming an instrument of exploitation. Among Tibetan, among Buddhist also, you see, therefore, religion also becoming an instrument of exploitation.

1:02:55 Among Tibetan Buddhists also, you see, they're quite sort of quite serious sometimes, you see, people, and particularly Among Tibetan Buddhists also, you see, they're quite sort of quite serious sometimes, you see, people, and particularly

1:03:05 like me, sort of sit on a high throne and sort of appear as something very holy and like me, sort of sit on a high throne and sort of appear as something very holy and

1:03:15 exploit other people. exploit other people.

1:03:25 So I actually, you see, very publicly criticize about these sort of traditions. So I actually, you see, very publicly criticize about these sort of traditions.

1:03:34 And then I often, you see, very, very critical or publicly criticize, you see, some Buddhist practitioner or And then I often, you see, very, very critical or publicly criticize, you see, some Buddhist practitioner or

1:03:43 Buddhist from Ladakh up to Arunachal. Buddhist from Ladakh up to Arunachal.

1:03:52 You see, they quite often, you see, wear some ceremonial sort of dress or different hat or instrument. You see, they quite often, you see, wear some ceremonial sort of dress or different hat or instrument.

1:04:01 I always tell them, we never heard in Nalanda, institution, Nagarjuna have some different hat and then Aryadeva, Bababhiga, Buddhapalita, they carry some instrument. I always tell them, we never heard in Nalanda, institution, Nagarjuna have some different hat and then Aryadeva, Bababhiga, Buddhapalita, they carry some instrument.

1:04:21 No. No.

1:04:29 They only think, analyze, and writing and meditation. They only think, analyze, and writing and meditation.

1:04:37 That's the proper way. That's the proper way.

1:04:46 Sometimes we Tibetan Buddhists, too much emphasis superficial thing. Sometimes we Tibetan Buddhists, too much emphasis superficial thing.

1:04:54 And then you see wearing, I think you noticed in Ladakh, you see wearing some masks, and then doing something. And then you see wearing, I think you noticed in Ladakh, you see wearing some masks, and then doing something.

1:05:03 Supposed to destroy the enemy of Dharma but fail. Supposed to destroy the enemy of Dharma but fail.

1:05:11 So we too much sort of involve superficial thing. So we too much sort of involve superficial thing.

1:05:20 And many Hindus, they simply sort of worship Ganesh or Shiva or Saraswati or these. And many Hindus, they simply sort of worship Ganesh or Shiva or Saraswati or these.

1:05:28 I think every Hindu family, most of them, I think mourning in the form of worship, some flowers, I think every Hindu family, most of them, I think mourning in the form of worship, some flowers,

1:05:37 some incense, and recite some Sanskrit sort of Shloka, but without knowing the meaning. some incense, and recite some Sanskrit sort of Shloka, but without knowing the meaning.

1:05:45 Then sometimes I sort of jokingly, you see, since I'm very close, I always consider Indians are historically Then sometimes I sort of jokingly, you see, since I'm very close, I always consider Indians are historically

1:05:54 our guru, really our guru. our guru, really our guru.

1:06:02 All our knowledge learned from Indian guru. That's clear. All our knowledge learned from Indian guru. That's clear.

1:06:11 So sometimes I jokingly tell those worshippers, mourning, worship in front of Ganesh or something, almost it seems So sometimes I jokingly tell those worshippers, mourning, worship in front of Ganesh or something, almost it seems

1:06:19 like, oh, today my practice of corruption, practice of hypocrisy will be successful. like, oh, today my practice of corruption, practice of hypocrisy will be successful.

1:06:28 How can? Impossible. So there is clearly, and then Muslims, I don't know you, but some Muslim friend there, I think you also maybe pray to Allah, successful some of your wrongdoing. So it is impossible. How can? Impossible. So there is clearly, and then Muslims, I don't know you, but some Muslim friend there, I think you also maybe pray to Allah, successful some of your wrongdoing. So it is impossible.

1:06:51 Killing between Sunni and Shia now in Pakistan and many other places, both the followers of Allah, how can? All these never sort of never sort of carry the real teaching seriously, sincerely, just religion, religious faith. Killing between Sunni and Shia now in Pakistan and many other places, both the followers of Allah, how can? All these never sort of never sort of carry the real teaching seriously, sincerely, just religion, religious faith.

1:07:16 Religion is just lip service. I think we must be, whether you accept religion or not, up to individual. Nobody can force rare. No. I think Buddhist time, they are non-believers like Javaka. Javaka are non-believers. Religion is just lip service. I think we must be, whether you accept religion or not, up to individual. Nobody can force rare. No. I think Buddhist time, they are non-believers like Javaka. Javaka are non-believers.

1:07:41 Never impose. But intelligent level, argument, debate, that's okay. But meantime, respect Javaka also. Therefore, they decide up to individual whether they accept religion or not. Once you accept, you must be very sincere. You must be serious. That one is my sort of general sort of criticism. Never impose. But intelligent level, argument, debate, that's okay. But meantime, respect Javaka also. Therefore, they decide up to individual whether they accept religion or not. Once you accept, you must be very sincere. You must be serious. That one is my sort of general sort of criticism.

1:08:07 That's I really, you see. So since I publicly criticize others, before criticizing others, first I myself check right from early morning, oh, this day, I should carry Buddhist sort of practice sincerely, seriously. That's I really, you see. So since I publicly criticize others, before criticizing others, first I myself check right from early morning, oh, this day, I should carry Buddhist sort of practice sincerely, seriously.

1:08:32 If I tell others these things, I myself, you see, do different ways. That's hypocrisy. If I tell others these things, I myself, you see, do different ways. That's hypocrisy.

1:08:43 Sometimes I tell people, religion also, you see, seems to teach us how to act hypocrisy. Sometimes I tell people, religion also, you see, seems to teach us how to act hypocrisy.

1:08:54 Telling truth, honest, truthful, honest, compassion, forgiveness, and practice nothing. Isn't it? Telling truth, honest, truthful, honest, compassion, forgiveness, and practice nothing. Isn't it?

1:09:05 Then perhaps, you see, my own sort of one, one sort of critical criticism or disagree. Then perhaps, you see, my own sort of one, one sort of critical criticism or disagree.

1:09:14 You see, Bhostupant, one of the great scholars of Nalanda and younger brother of Arya Asanga, these two You see, Bhostupant, one of the great scholars of Nalanda and younger brother of Arya Asanga, these two

1:09:23 publicly, you see, hold the Chittamantra philosophical view. publicly, you see, hold the Chittamantra philosophical view.

1:09:32 So Bhostupant, you see, his writing, Abhidamokashakarika, he explained about geography. So Bhostupant, you see, his writing, Abhidamokashakarika, he explained about geography.

1:09:41 So Mount Meru in the center, sun and moon go like that, same level. So Mount Meru in the center, sun and moon go like that, same level.

1:09:50 I no longer accept that. I no longer accept that.

1:09:59 So I a little bit sort of repair this way with respect. So I a little bit sort of repair this way with respect.

1:10:07 So sometimes I used to jokingly, you see, tell people, Bhostupant, without glass and without sort of the So sometimes I used to jokingly, you see, tell people, Bhostupant, without glass and without sort of the

1:10:16 telescope, it looks, you see, sun and moon, almost same size, except slight differences. telescope, it looks, you see, sun and moon, almost same size, except slight differences.

1:10:24 So he described sun and moon size is except I don't know, except one yojana differences. Otherwise, 50/50. So he described sun and moon size is except I don't know, except one yojana differences. Otherwise, 50/50.

1:10:33 Sun, 51. Moon, 50. Sun, 51. Moon, 50.

1:10:37 Actually, what's the difference? Actually, what's the difference?

1:10:42 The sun, huge. The sun, huge.

1:10:47 Moon is much, much smaller. Moon is much, much smaller.

1:10:52 So as a Buddhist, as a follower of Nalanda tradition, we must accept the reality. So as a Buddhist, as a follower of Nalanda tradition, we must accept the reality.

1:10:57 So one of the Buddhist logical sort of approach is investigate. So one of the Buddhist logical sort of approach is investigate.

1:11:02 If you see things go against our real sort of investigation, then we must reject that. If you see things go against our real sort of investigation, then we must reject that.

1:11:07 So like Nagarjuna, Chandragirti, and Shantadeva, all these great sort of Nalanda masters, you see, they even sort of investigate Buddha's own word. So like Nagarjuna, Chandragirti, and Shantadeva, all these great sort of Nalanda masters, you see, they even sort of investigate Buddha's own word.

1:11:25 If you see a certain point which is mentioned in Buddha's own word, if it goes against our sort of experiment, investigation, then we have the right to reject that. So therefore, I also follow that tradition. If you see a certain point which is mentioned in Buddha's own word, if it goes against our sort of experiment, investigation, then we have the right to reject that. So therefore, I also follow that tradition.

1:11:48 So Bhostupant mentioned Mount Meru. I, with great respect, now that is old-fashioned of thinking, not reality. Excuse. I usually do that. So that's, I would say, the critical way. Criticism like that. So Bhostupant mentioned Mount Meru. I, with great respect, now that is old-fashioned of thinking, not reality. Excuse. I usually do that. So that's, I would say, the critical way. Criticism like that.

1:12:15 As far as the religion is concerned, I never found any principle or tradition in Islam about which As far as the religion is concerned, I never found any principle or tradition in Islam about which

1:12:21 I can say that I abhor this principle. No. I can say that I abhor this principle. No.

1:12:28 But as far as the Muslim community is concerned, I have a number of complaints towards the Muslim community. But as far as the Muslim community is concerned, I have a number of complaints towards the Muslim community.

1:12:35 For example, almost all the present Muslims live in negative thinking. For example, almost all the present Muslims live in negative thinking.

1:12:42 Almost all the Muslims. Almost all the Muslims.

1:12:49 I traveled so many countries, from India to USA, from India to Arab countries. I traveled so many countries, from India to USA, from India to Arab countries.

1:12:56 Everywhere I found that Muslims are living in negativity. Everywhere I found that Muslims are living in negativity.

1:13:03 They always complain about other nations. They always complain about other nations.

1:13:10 Arabs say that America is Adoobul Islam Raqam Wahid. Arabs say that America is Adoobul Islam Raqam Wahid.

1:13:17 Other Muslims say America is the enemy number of Islam. Other Muslims say America is the enemy number of Islam.

1:13:24 This is wrong, completely wrong. This is wrong, completely wrong.

1:13:32 According to Puranic teachings, and I don't believe that anyone is our enemy. According to Puranic teachings, and I don't believe that anyone is our enemy.

1:13:40 I don't believe this notion. I don't believe this notion.

1:13:48 But if there is any enemy, for the sake of argument, I would say that if there is But if there is any enemy, for the sake of argument, I would say that if there is

1:13:56 any enemy, then what the Quran says, there is a verse in the Quran, it means that do any enemy, then what the Quran says, there is a verse in the Quran, it means that do

1:14:04 good deeds in return for bad deeds. good deeds in return for bad deeds.

1:14:12 And you will find that your enemy has become your dearest friend. And you will find that your enemy has become your dearest friend.

1:14:20 What a revolutionary idea. According to this Quranic verse, there is no enemy. Every human being is either your friend or potential friend. So turn this potential into actual. So why complain against enemy? What a revolutionary idea. According to this Quranic verse, there is no enemy. Every human being is either your friend or potential friend. So turn this potential into actual. So why complain against enemy?

1:14:42 So I completely reject this idea that the world is our enemy. So I completely reject this idea that the world is our enemy.

1:14:50 They are conspirators. They are conspirators.

1:14:59 Then the other aspect of this negative thinking is that when you live in negative thinking, you will Then the other aspect of this negative thinking is that when you live in negative thinking, you will

1:15:07 lose the greatest blessing of God because all the blessings of God lie in positive thinking. Positive thinking. lose the greatest blessing of God because all the blessings of God lie in positive thinking. Positive thinking.

1:15:16 If you are a positive thinker, then you are able to develop your mind. If you are a positive thinker, then you are able to develop your mind.

1:15:25 Intellectual development and spiritual development is based completely on positive thinking. So those Muslims who are living in negative thinking, in negative thought, they have deprived themselves by spiritual development and by intellectual development. So this kind of thinking is completely wrong. Intellectual development and spiritual development is based completely on positive thinking. So those Muslims who are living in negative thinking, in negative thought, they have deprived themselves by spiritual development and by intellectual development. So this kind of thinking is completely wrong.

1:15:52 And I abhor this kind of thinking, although all the Muslims are living in this thought. And I abhor this kind of thinking, although all the Muslims are living in this thought.

1:15:57 Recently, I participated in a Muslim seminar. Recently, I participated in a Muslim seminar.

1:16:02 There were so many Muslim scholars, and all were educated. There were so many Muslim scholars, and all were educated.

1:16:07 And what was the gist of that seminar? And what was the gist of that seminar?

1:16:12 They said that Muslims are under siege. They said that Muslims are under siege.

1:16:17 This was their word. This was their word.

1:16:23 Muslims are living under siege. Muslims are living under siege.

1:16:29 This is completely wrong. No. This is completely wrong. No.

1:16:36 I'm in India. I'm in India.

1:16:42 I'm proud to be an Indian because I believe that in India, I'm better than all those Muslim countries. I'm proud to be an Indian because I believe that in India, I'm better than all those Muslim countries.

1:16:49 You know there are 58 Muslim countries. You know there are 58 Muslim countries.

1:16:55 I have traveled those Muslim countries. I have traveled those Muslim countries.

1:17:02 But I can say with conviction that in India, I found more opportunity than is prevalent in those Muslim countries. But I can say with conviction that in India, I found more opportunity than is prevalent in those Muslim countries.

1:17:08 For example, if you want to do something, there are two conditions. For example, if you want to do something, there are two conditions.

1:17:15 One, peace, and the second, freedom. One, peace, and the second, freedom.

1:17:21 Without peace and freedom, you cannot do anything, any great thing. Without peace and freedom, you cannot do anything, any great thing.

1:17:28 And I can say according to my experience, but in Muslim countries, you cannot find the both. And I can say according to my experience, but in Muslim countries, you cannot find the both.

1:17:35 If in any country there is freedom, there is no peace. And if there is peace, there is no freedom. But in India, I enjoy the both. In India, I enjoy the both. If in any country there is freedom, there is no peace. And if there is peace, there is no freedom. But in India, I enjoy the both. In India, I enjoy the both.

1:17:50 Here, I enjoy peace, peace, and at the same time, I enjoy freedom. So I always live in shukr that I was born in India. Otherwise, it's not possible for me to start this mission. I know so many people who were born in other Muslim countries, and they started missions like myself. Here, I enjoy peace, peace, and at the same time, I enjoy freedom. So I always live in shukr that I was born in India. Otherwise, it's not possible for me to start this mission. I know so many people who were born in other Muslim countries, and they started missions like myself.

1:18:17 And they were gunned down. They were compelled to exile with their country. But I'm here in India. I'm completely free. Completely free. There is no restriction for me. So this kind of thinking, the negative thinking, I abhor it. And they were gunned down. They were compelled to exile with their country. But I'm here in India. I'm completely free. Completely free. There is no restriction for me. So this kind of thinking, the negative thinking, I abhor it.

1:18:39 And I can say that unless Muslims abandon this kind of thinking, they cannot progress. And I can say that unless Muslims abandon this kind of thinking, they cannot progress.

1:18:58 So to take on a self-critical posture towards my own Christian faith in the way in which it So to take on a self-critical posture towards my own Christian faith in the way in which it

1:19:08 is practiced, I would choose actually two things to critique. is practiced, I would choose actually two things to critique.

1:19:18 The first would be the attitude that is still prevalent in much of the Christian community towards HIV The first would be the attitude that is still prevalent in much of the Christian community towards HIV

1:19:28 and AIDS and towards those who are infected with that disease and the mentality that that is a and AIDS and towards those who are infected with that disease and the mentality that that is a

1:19:38 punishment from God. punishment from God.

1:19:48 And so the shaming and stigmatizing of people who live with HIV and AIDS, that's something that is changing within Christian communities around the world, but it's not changing fast enough. And so people are still too ashamed to allow their status, their HIV status, to be known. And so the shaming and stigmatizing of people who live with HIV and AIDS, that's something that is changing within Christian communities around the world, but it's not changing fast enough. And so people are still too ashamed to allow their status, their HIV status, to be known.

1:20:12 And then the second is a very self-interested one, which is the way in which our tradition, not And then the second is a very self-interested one, which is the way in which our tradition, not

1:20:19 the faith in and of itself, but the way that the tradition is enacted with regards to the the faith in and of itself, but the way that the tradition is enacted with regards to the

1:20:26 position of women. position of women.

1:20:34 Women and girls in our religious communities are not uniformly treated with the regard and the respect which Women and girls in our religious communities are not uniformly treated with the regard and the respect which

1:20:41 they so rightly deserve. they so rightly deserve.

1:20:49 There are positions of power in our church communities that are often not open to women. There are positions of power in our church communities that are often not open to women.

1:20:56 There are whole denominations which will not allow women to exercise roles of liturgical leadership. There are whole denominations which will not allow women to exercise roles of liturgical leadership.

1:21:04 Within my own denomination, to sort of draw it down very narrowly and very specifically, within my own Within my own denomination, to sort of draw it down very narrowly and very specifically, within my own

1:21:10 denomination, the role of women as ordained leaders is still contested in some parts of the Anglican communion. denomination, the role of women as ordained leaders is still contested in some parts of the Anglican communion.

1:21:17 This past month, we've just ordained the first two women as bishops in the Anglican Church in Southern Africa. This past month, we've just ordained the first two women as bishops in the Anglican Church in Southern Africa.

1:21:24 But that has come as a hard-fought battle in the Church in England. But that has come as a hard-fought battle in the Church in England.

1:21:31 There still hasn't been agreement that women can be ordained bishops. There still hasn't been agreement that women can be ordained bishops.

1:21:38 So all of those things are very much a place where I say that there's no tenet of So all of those things are very much a place where I say that there's no tenet of

1:21:45 our faith that says that women are not fully human and so cannot fully express roles within the faith community. our faith that says that women are not fully human and so cannot fully express roles within the faith community.

1:21:52 And I would venture that Christianity is not the only religion that has that issue. And I would venture that Christianity is not the only religion that has that issue.

1:21:59 There are two areas which I abhor, to use the word, in the question. There are two areas which I abhor, to use the word, in the question.

1:22:06 As I said, both of them are not theological questions. As I said, both of them are not theological questions.

1:22:13 They are sociological questions. They are sociological questions.

1:22:19 The first, of course, is the rigidity of the caste system in which millions of people have been The first, of course, is the rigidity of the caste system in which millions of people have been

1:22:26 subjected to iniquitous and extremely derogatory situations in society for 1,000 years, for 2,000 years. subjected to iniquitous and extremely derogatory situations in society for 1,000 years, for 2,000 years.

1:22:33 Of course, now we have tried to overcome that with our constitution. Of course, now we have tried to overcome that with our constitution.

1:22:40 There is absolutely no difference between citizen and citizen. There is absolutely no difference between citizen and citizen.

1:22:47 Everybody has the freedom, in fact, in any way. Everybody has the freedom, in fact, in any way.

1:22:54 Practicing untouchability is a cognizable crime. Practicing untouchability is a cognizable crime.

1:23:01 You can go to non-bailable offense. You can go to non-bailable offense.

1:23:08 So a great deal has happened in the last 60 years. So a great deal has happened in the last 60 years.

1:23:15 But this thing that's built into the social structure of Hinduism is something that still needs to be fully eradicated. But this thing that's built into the social structure of Hinduism is something that still needs to be fully eradicated.

1:23:22 And until it is eradicated, I don't think we really live up to our Vedantic concepts. The second thing is, again, not theologically, but practically, the position of woman in Hinduism is extremely high. And until it is eradicated, I don't think we really live up to our Vedantic concepts. The second thing is, again, not theologically, but practically, the position of woman in Hinduism is extremely high.

1:23:39 As you see, if there are male forms of the divine, there are female forms of the divine. There are goddesses. There's Durga who combines the power of all the gods in her. And the name of the goddess is always first. It is Sita Ram. It is Radha Krishna. It's Uma Shankar. It is always the woman whose name comes first. As you see, if there are male forms of the divine, there are female forms of the divine. There are goddesses. There's Durga who combines the power of all the gods in her. And the name of the goddess is always first. It is Sita Ram. It is Radha Krishna. It's Uma Shankar. It is always the woman whose name comes first.

1:24:02 So theologically, there is no problem. So theologically, there is no problem.

1:24:08 But in actual fact, again, the whole concept of women being a burden, girls being a burden, a But in actual fact, again, the whole concept of women being a burden, girls being a burden, a

1:24:14 female ferticide, which is really a shame and a disgrace for a civilized country, this whole Dauriy syndrome, female ferticide, which is really a shame and a disgrace for a civilized country, this whole Dauriy syndrome,

1:24:21 which is really sapping Hindu society. which is really sapping Hindu society.

1:24:27 I mean, there was an advertisement; it used to be an advertisement, is now banned, "Spend 5,000 now I mean, there was an advertisement; it used to be an advertisement, is now banned, "Spend 5,000 now

1:24:33 and save 5,020 years from now," meaning thereby abort the girl child now. and save 5,020 years from now," meaning thereby abort the girl child now.

1:24:40 Otherwise, when she grows up, you'll have to spend 20 lakhs on her wedding. Otherwise, when she grows up, you'll have to spend 20 lakhs on her wedding.

1:24:44 So until social attitudes change, until we realize that women are not, girls are as, in fact, girls So until social attitudes change, until we realize that women are not, girls are as, in fact, girls

1:24:48 often tend to be brighter than the boys. often tend to be brighter than the boys.

1:24:53 I'm not going to give any examples. I'm not going to give any examples.

1:24:57 But the thing is that a woman, I mean, and the ideal couple, of course, is Shiva and Parvati. But the thing is that a woman, I mean, and the ideal couple, of course, is Shiva and Parvati.

1:25:01 Parvati never sits at the foot like Lakshmi sits at the feet of Vishnu. Parvati never sits at the foot like Lakshmi sits at the feet of Vishnu.

1:25:06 She sits side by side. She sits side by side.

1:25:10 She never sits on the floor in front of the feet. She never sits on the floor in front of the feet.

1:25:14 So that ultimately ends in the Arthangini. So that ultimately ends in the Arthangini.

1:25:19 You've seen the iconography where a man is half woman and half man in the same sense. You've seen the iconography where a man is half woman and half man in the same sense.

1:25:23 So that is what we must work to. So that is what we must work to.

1:25:28 So these are the two things, I feel, which we've got to strongly oppose in the Hindu tradition. Thank you. So these are the two things, I feel, which we've got to strongly oppose in the Hindu tradition. Thank you.

1:25:35 While Swamiji was alive, at that time, there have been several attempts to bring traditions together with a While Swamiji was alive, at that time, there have been several attempts to bring traditions together with a

1:25:43 view to creating harmony. view to creating harmony.

1:25:51 The culmination of this effort was actually the Parliament of World Religions that took place in Chicago in 1893. The culmination of this effort was actually the Parliament of World Religions that took place in Chicago in 1893.

1:25:59 Swamiji was aware that harmony among religions of the world still remains merely as a goal. He had frankly admitted that so far, that goal has not been reached because of a want of a plan that is practical. Swamiji was aware that harmony among religions of the world still remains merely as a goal. He had frankly admitted that so far, that goal has not been reached because of a want of a plan that is practical.

1:26:15 He wrote, "That plan alone is practical, which does not destroy the individuality of any man in religion, He wrote, "That plan alone is practical, which does not destroy the individuality of any man in religion,

1:26:21 and at the same time shows him a point of union with all others." I now come to and at the same time shows him a point of union with all others." I now come to

1:26:28 the fourth of the cluster of questions. the fourth of the cluster of questions.

1:26:35 Please take a few minutes each and indicate a plan of action so that a point of union Please take a few minutes each and indicate a plan of action so that a point of union

1:26:42 among diverse religious traditions can be demonstrated as achievable on a collective plane. among diverse religious traditions can be demonstrated as achievable on a collective plane.

1:26:49 What is it that we are not doing because of which you think that diversity leads to dissensions, What is it that we are not doing because of which you think that diversity leads to dissensions,

1:26:56 even in our time when technology has bridged physical distance in an unprecedented manner, giving us opportunity to even in our time when technology has bridged physical distance in an unprecedented manner, giving us opportunity to

1:27:03 know about each other's traditions as much as we want to? know about each other's traditions as much as we want to?

1:27:10 How do we transform ourselves so that in our zeal to emphasize our distinctness, we no longer feel the need to overlook the overlaps that are there and get ready to recognize our shared common values? How do we transform ourselves so that in our zeal to emphasize our distinctness, we no longer feel the need to overlook the overlaps that are there and get ready to recognize our shared common values?

1:27:29 Perhaps I always tell people, "Concept of one religion, one truth, and the concept of several religions, several truths." Itself is a contradiction. Perhaps I always tell people, "Concept of one religion, one truth, and the concept of several religions, several truths." Itself is a contradiction.

1:27:52 I think each religion is an emphasis. I think each religion is an emphasis.

1:27:58 You see, your tradition is sort of ultimate or something. You see, your tradition is sort of ultimate or something.

1:28:05 So in order to develop or in order to keep single sort of pointed faith towards your own So in order to develop or in order to keep single sort of pointed faith towards your own

1:28:12 sort of tradition, the concept of one religion, one truth is relevant. sort of tradition, the concept of one religion, one truth is relevant.

1:28:18 Now, in the terms of community, now here, obviously, now this room, so one truth, one religion is Now, in the terms of community, now here, obviously, now this room, so one truth, one religion is

1:28:25 no longer relevant. no longer relevant.

1:28:32 Now, several truths, several religions are already there as a fact. Now, several truths, several religions are already there as a fact.

1:28:38 So in the terms of community, the concept of several truths, several religions is relevant. So in the terms of community, the concept of several truths, several religions is relevant.

1:28:45 In the terms of individual practitioner, the concept of one truth, one religion is relevant. In the terms of individual practitioner, the concept of one truth, one religion is relevant.

1:28:52 So it's no contradiction. So it's no contradiction.

1:28:59 Now, religious harmony. Last now, now I think several years, one time I discussed the Bishop Tutu also. You see, I start since 1975. Now, religious harmony. Last now, now I think several years, one time I discussed the Bishop Tutu also. You see, I start since 1975.

1:29:24 Firstly, you see, they practice pilgrimage to different religious sort of holy sites by a group of people Firstly, you see, they practice pilgrimage to different religious sort of holy sites by a group of people

1:29:33 from different religious traditions. from different religious traditions.

1:29:43 So with that sort of concept, I had one sort of pilgrimage to Jerusalem, I think, two times. So with that sort of concept, I had one sort of pilgrimage to Jerusalem, I think, two times.

1:29:53 Then also in Lohut and Kashugri. Then also in Lohut and Kashugri.

1:30:03 Fatima. Fatima. Fatima. Fatima. And many Hindu temples and Jewish temples. So that is very, very helpful. Once you've been to one of the holy places and also Jordan, that mosque, the rock, I also pay my sort of respect. Baha'i worship. Fatima. Fatima. Fatima. Fatima. And many Hindu temples and Jewish temples. So that is very, very helpful. Once you've been to one of the holy places and also Jordan, that mosque, the rock, I also pay my sort of respect. Baha'i worship.

1:30:32 Then the Baha'i. Then the Baha'i.

1:30:40 So it's very, very sort of helpful, one thing. So it's very, very sort of helpful, one thing.

1:30:49 Then the important thing is meeting with practitioner, exchange their deeper experiences with practitioners of other traditions. Then the important thing is meeting with practitioner, exchange their deeper experiences with practitioners of other traditions.

1:30:58 That's very, very helpful to understand the value of other traditions. That's very, very helpful to understand the value of other traditions.

1:31:06 Then another scholars meet and discuss on an academic level, discuss what's similarity, what's differences. Then another scholars meet and discuss on an academic level, discuss what's similarity, what's differences.

1:31:15 Then naturally, we will find differences. Then naturally, we will find differences.

1:31:24 Then it's very important to discuss what is the purpose of these differences, different approach. Then it's very important to discuss what is the purpose of these differences, different approach.

1:31:33 It's simply a different approach, achieve the same goal. It's simply a different approach, achieve the same goal.

1:31:38 Compassionate person, sensible person, honest person, all different methods. Compassionate person, sensible person, honest person, all different methods.

1:31:43 Some religions say we all are created by God, one source. Some religions say we all are created by God, one source.

1:31:48 So if you truly believe that, if you implement that, no basis to quarrel among human beings, among So if you truly believe that, if you implement that, no basis to quarrel among human beings, among

1:31:53 brothers and sisters. brothers and sisters.

1:31:58 You truly believe that. You truly believe that.

1:32:04 So that concept, I think, is very, very important to reduce what's the differences. And then also single-pointed faith towards God as a creator. So that concept, I think, is very, very important to reduce what's the differences. And then also single-pointed faith towards God as a creator.

1:32:22 You see, the effect is reduced self-centered attitude. You see, the effect is reduced self-centered attitude.

1:32:29 Buddhist, now here, Anatma theory, selfless theory. Buddhist, now here, Anatma theory, selfless theory.

1:32:36 That's the real sort of demarcation between you and me. That's the real sort of demarcation between you and me.

1:32:43 But same purpose. But same purpose.

1:32:51 You see, he used the concept of Anatma. You see, he used the concept of Anatma.

1:32:58 So that eventually merged with Brahman. So that eventually merged with Brahman.

1:33:05 So I used Anatma to reduce self-centered attitude and plus faith towards Buddha and Buddhisatvas like that. So I used Anatma to reduce self-centered attitude and plus faith towards Buddha and Buddhisatvas like that.

1:33:13 So therefore, the different way of approach, but same purpose. So therefore, the different way of approach, but same purpose.

1:33:25 Once we clearly made that, then hardly no basis to argue, to quarrel because of a different approach, different philosophy. Once we clearly made that, then hardly no basis to argue, to quarrel because of a different approach, different philosophy.

1:33:38 Then another point, your father beloved sort of what's the wonderful sort of Christian practitioner as a human being. Then another point, your father beloved sort of what's the wonderful sort of Christian practitioner as a human being.

1:33:51 Whenever he was there, I mean, he's there, the whole atmosphere immediately, you see, becomes something very warm, very friendly. Whenever he was there, I mean, he's there, the whole atmosphere immediately, you see, becomes something very warm, very friendly.

1:34:04 So then daughter, you see, carries the same nose. Wonderful. Now, I really believe, you see, you also carry the same spirit. That's wonderful, wonderful. So then daughter, you see, carries the same nose. Wonderful. Now, I really believe, you see, you also carry the same spirit. That's wonderful, wonderful.

1:34:18 So you see, he at one point, oh, oh, then still misses one thing. So you see, he at one point, oh, oh, then still misses one thing.

1:34:26 Then like Assisi meeting, religious leaders sit together and send the same message from the same platform, message Then like Assisi meeting, religious leaders sit together and send the same message from the same platform, message

1:34:34 of peace, message of importance of spirituality. of peace, message of importance of spirituality.

1:34:42 I think ordinary people, in the eyes of ordinary people, millions, millions of people get some, I think, I think ordinary people, in the eyes of ordinary people, millions, millions of people get some, I think,

1:34:50 very significant sort of impact like that. very significant sort of impact like that.

1:34:58 So then your father, you see, told me another point. That's whenever some, you see, disasters happen, then people from different sort of faith come together, serve together, help together. That also, I think, is very good. All religious traditions teach us, serve people, serve needy people. So then your father, you see, told me another point. That's whenever some, you see, disasters happen, then people from different sort of faith come together, serve together, help together. That also, I think, is very good. All religious traditions teach us, serve people, serve needy people.

1:35:28 So therefore, in that respect, I think there are Christian brothers, sisters, I think, more committed than Buddhist brothers, sisters. So wonderful. So that, I think, you see, I think many of you, I think already sort of, I think, practice these things. I think you know very well. So therefore, in that respect, I think there are Christian brothers, sisters, I think, more committed than Buddhist brothers, sisters. So wonderful. So that, I think, you see, I think many of you, I think already sort of, I think, practice these things. I think you know very well.

1:35:53 A few occasions, we discussed these things. Now, I really sort of feel India is the only country where all major world religions live together. Yeah. As you mentioned. A few occasions, we discussed these things. Now, I really sort of feel India is the only country where all major world religions live together. Yeah. As you mentioned.

1:36:12 As you mentioned. As you mentioned.

1:36:17 I think last year or two years ago, I was in Jodhpur. I think last year or two years ago, I was in Jodhpur.

1:36:23 I met one Romanian who carried some research work about religious harmony in this country. I met one Romanian who carried some research work about religious harmony in this country.

1:36:29 So then he told me he visited one Muslim village. So then he told me he visited one Muslim village.

1:36:35 Village means at least a few thousand populations must be there. Village means at least a few thousand populations must be there.

1:36:41 So he found only three Hindu families, but no fear, completely sort of safe, completely sort of friendly So he found only three Hindu families, but no fear, completely sort of safe, completely sort of friendly

1:36:47 with the rest of the Muslim community. with the rest of the Muslim community.

1:36:53 So that is India. So that is India.

1:36:59 And then also, of course, I think not worthy to mention between these great scholars, but you see, And then also, of course, I think not worthy to mention between these great scholars, but you see,

1:37:05 some of my Muslim sort of friends, they told me, "Real Islam practitioner should not create sort of some of my Muslim sort of friends, they told me, "Real Islam practitioner should not create sort of

1:37:11 bloodshed among people. bloodshed among people.

1:37:17 If you really create bloodshed, then no longer Islam practitioner." Then also, you see, the reason mentioned, "Islam If you really create bloodshed, then no longer Islam practitioner." Then also, you see, the reason mentioned, "Islam

1:37:28 practitioner must to the extent love towards the entire creature of Allah." Then the concept of jihad. practitioner must to the extent love towards the entire creature of Allah." Then the concept of jihad.

1:37:39 Jihad means combat with your own negative emotion, not sort of violence or fighting with other people, but Jihad means combat with your own negative emotion, not sort of violence or fighting with other people, but

1:37:51 combat or whatsoever, combat with your own wrong things or mistake things or inner sort of what's the destructive things. combat or whatsoever, combat with your own wrong things or mistake things or inner sort of what's the destructive things.

1:38:02 So if you look on these lines, same, different way, but same aim. So if you look on these lines, same, different way, but same aim.

1:38:14 Now here, my main point is, since this country, religious harmony, not political reason, I mean, sort of developed recently, no, thousands of years, already there. So this must now, what's that? Now here, my main point is, since this country, religious harmony, not political reason, I mean, sort of developed recently, no, thousands of years, already there. So this must now, what's that?

1:38:37 We need special effort to promote this within the country. We need special effort to promote this within the country.

1:38:43 People, I think, take for granted these things. People, I think, take for granted these things.

1:38:49 That's not sufficient. That's not sufficient.

1:38:56 We must educate people within the country. We must educate people within the country.

1:39:02 Then also, you see, show the rest of the world, different religious people can live together and serve Then also, you see, show the rest of the world, different religious people can live together and serve

1:39:09 people, not create sort of more problems. people, not create sort of more problems.

1:39:15 So I think we should have some kind of these kind of sort of meetings, not occasionally, but So I think we should have some kind of these kind of sort of meetings, not occasionally, but

1:39:22 quite often, and then invite, you see, people from different sort of countries. quite often, and then invite, you see, people from different sort of countries.

1:39:28 And this spirit must make a living as India, as an example. Clear? And this spirit must make a living as India, as an example. Clear?

1:39:35 So please, my Indian brothers, Hindu brothers and Muslim brothers, please make some what's the constant effort and here also. So please, my Indian brothers, Hindu brothers and Muslim brothers, please make some what's the constant effort and here also.

1:39:42 So that, I think, now time comes. So that, I think, now time comes.

1:39:49 Sometimes, you see, we prefer a leisure way. Sometimes, you see, we prefer a leisure way.

1:39:56 I think now that time already passed. I think now that time already passed.

1:40:03 Now, we should be more active. Now, we should be more active.

1:40:10 So your age now already old, 82. So your age now already old, 82.

1:40:18 82. 82, but you should be more active. So more active means more exercise in your leg. So that's helpful. So sometimes I joke with you, telling people, "My age also now, they're now 78. So there's some problem, my knees." Wait, knees are right. 82. 82, but you should be more active. So more active means more exercise in your leg. So that's helpful. So sometimes I joke with you, telling people, "My age also now, they're now 78. So there's some problem, my knees." Wait, knees are right.

1:40:47 These. These.

1:40:51 But then I tell them, "My main sort of interest or main commitment is talk, blah, blah, blah, But then I tell them, "My main sort of interest or main commitment is talk, blah, blah, blah,

1:40:56 blah, blah, blah, not sports." So if my main sort of interest or commitment is sports, then this blah, blah, blah, not sports." So if my main sort of interest or commitment is sports, then this

1:41:00 really creates a problem. really creates a problem.

1:41:05 But for talk, not much problem. But for talk, not much problem.

1:41:09 So I can be active at least the next 10, 15 years, I think, will be active, even So I can be active at least the next 10, 15 years, I think, will be active, even

1:41:14 on a wheelchair coming and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. on a wheelchair coming and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:41:19 Thank you. Thank you.

1:41:28 Diversity or difference are part of nature. Diversity or difference are part of nature.

1:41:38 We cannot eliminate the difference from life. We cannot eliminate the difference from life.

1:41:47 So the only option before us is to learn the art of management. So the only option before us is to learn the art of management.

1:41:57 We have to learn the art of management of differences rather than try to eliminate it. We have to learn the art of management of differences rather than try to eliminate it.

1:42:07 This is the first formula that I derived from my Samykh studies. This is the first formula that I derived from my Samykh studies.

1:42:17 Then according to my experience, difference is not an evil, not at all. Then according to my experience, difference is not an evil, not at all.

1:42:28 Difference is a blessing. Why? Because difference creates challenge. Challenge leads to discussion, and discussion results into development, intellectual development. Difference is a blessing. Why? Because difference creates challenge. Challenge leads to discussion, and discussion results into development, intellectual development.

1:42:49 This is the formula of life. This is the formula of life.

1:42:55 I always invite differences. I always invite differences.

1:43:01 I always invite differences. I always invite differences.

1:43:07 I always invite criticism because it is criticism and difference through which we can develop our mind, our personality. I always invite criticism because it is criticism and difference through which we can develop our mind, our personality.

1:43:13 So this is my experience about differences. So this is my experience about differences.

1:43:19 Then if this is the situation, then what is the solution? Then if this is the situation, then what is the solution?

1:43:25 According to Islam, the solution lies in the same formula which I cited earlier, that follow one and respect all. Here, I would like to give a very beautiful example from the life of the Prophet of Islam. You know when the Prophet of Islam migrated to Madinah? According to Islam, the solution lies in the same formula which I cited earlier, that follow one and respect all. Here, I would like to give a very beautiful example from the life of the Prophet of Islam. You know when the Prophet of Islam migrated to Madinah?

1:43:53 You know he started his mission in Mecca, then he migrated to Madinah. You know he started his mission in Mecca, then he migrated to Madinah.

1:43:59 At that time, there were basically two groups, Muslims and Jews, roughly half-half. At that time, there were basically two groups, Muslims and Jews, roughly half-half.

1:44:06 So the Prophet of Islam issued a declaration that is called Sahifatul Madinah. So the Prophet of Islam issued a declaration that is called Sahifatul Madinah.

1:44:12 It means declaration. It means declaration.

1:44:19 It means Madinah declaration. It means Madinah declaration.

1:44:25 In this declaration, it was mentioned that, "Lil Yahude dinum, walil Muslimin dinum." And for Jews, their religion. In this declaration, it was mentioned that, "Lil Yahude dinum, walil Muslimin dinum." And for Jews, their religion.

1:44:32 For Muslims, their religion. For Muslims, their religion.

1:44:38 This is the best art, the best formula of management. This is the best art, the best formula of management.

1:44:45 So what happened? So what happened?

1:44:51 The Prophet himself gave an example. The Prophet himself gave an example.

1:44:57 One day, he was in some part of Madinah, and he saw that he saw a funeral procession One day, he was in some part of Madinah, and he saw that he saw a funeral procession

1:45:03 passing through a street in Madinah at that time. passing through a street in Madinah at that time.

1:45:10 So the Prophet was seated at that time. So the Prophet was seated at that time.

1:45:16 He stood up in respect of that Jewish funeral. He stood up in respect of that Jewish funeral.

1:45:22 One of the companions said, "O Prophet, it was the funeral of a Jew, not a Muslim." The One of the companions said, "O Prophet, it was the funeral of a Jew, not a Muslim." The

1:45:28 Prophet replied, "Alaisat nafsan, was he not a human being? Prophet replied, "Alaisat nafsan, was he not a human being?

1:45:35 Was he not a human being? " Here, you can see that the Prophet was able to discover the commonality between himself and that non-Muslim. So this kind of artificial partition that he is Muslim, he is non-Muslim, this is wrong. Was he not a human being? " Here, you can see that the Prophet was able to discover the commonality between himself and that non-Muslim. So this kind of artificial partition that he is Muslim, he is non-Muslim, this is wrong.

1:46:01 Everyone was born by God Almighty. Everyone is a human being. So he said, "Alaisat nafsan, was he not a human being?" Everyone was born by God Almighty. Everyone is a human being. So he said, "Alaisat nafsan, was he not a human being?

1:46:09 " And when he is a human being, and I am also a human being, so this is " And when he is a human being, and I am also a human being, so this is

1:46:16 the true commonality. the true commonality.

1:46:23 So this is the right solution to the question of difference or diversity. So this is the right solution to the question of difference or diversity.

1:46:30 So according to my experience, this is the simplest and natural formula, simplest and natural formula. So according to my experience, this is the simplest and natural formula, simplest and natural formula.

1:46:37 Follow one and respect all. Follow one and respect all.

1:46:44 And I have no hate against anyone. I can sit with total love and compassion with anyone. I have no hate in my mind, in my heart. So why? Because I always see man as a creation of God. Everyone is a creation of God. And I have no hate against anyone. I can sit with total love and compassion with anyone. I have no hate in my mind, in my heart. So why? Because I always see man as a creation of God. Everyone is a creation of God.

1:47:14 You all are a creation of God. You all are a creation of God.

1:47:19 So why are you hating? So why are you hating?

1:47:25 There is no difference. There is no difference.

1:47:31 So this is the only formula of living in harmony. So this is the only formula of living in harmony.

1:47:37 In this world, it is impossible to eliminate the differences. In this world, it is impossible to eliminate the differences.

1:47:43 So we have to learn the art of management, and by following this formula, we can establish a So we have to learn the art of management, and by following this formula, we can establish a

1:47:49 society of harmony. society of harmony.

1:47:55 Thank you. Thank you.

1:48:04 Some of the simpler and more practical things to do to build harmony among the religions is to Some of the simpler and more practical things to do to build harmony among the religions is to

1:48:14 begin working where we agree, to begin working on those things that don't require that you be a begin working where we agree, to begin working on those things that don't require that you be a

1:48:23 person of one faith or another, but to begin to tackle the issues that are of concern to person of one faith or another, but to begin to tackle the issues that are of concern to

1:48:33 us simply based on our humanity. us simply based on our humanity.

1:48:43 And so for instance, I work with the Western Cape Religious Leaders Forum in South Africa. And so for instance, I work with the Western Cape Religious Leaders Forum in South Africa.

1:48:52 We've come together to answer some of the issues of grave concern to us, issues of the ecology We've come together to answer some of the issues of grave concern to us, issues of the ecology

1:49:02 of the planet, issues of violence against women, issues of hunger and poverty in our neighborhoods. of the planet, issues of violence against women, issues of hunger and poverty in our neighborhoods.

1:49:12 When I lived in the United States, we had an annual 9/11 Unity March as a response to When I lived in the United States, we had an annual 9/11 Unity March as a response to

1:49:21 the disaster of 9/11 in the United States. the disaster of 9/11 in the United States.

1:49:31 This was in the Washington area, and people of all religious faiths would come together to walk. This was in the Washington area, and people of all religious faiths would come together to walk.

1:49:41 We began at the synagogue in Washington, went past the National Cathedral, and visited various religious sites along We began at the synagogue in Washington, went past the National Cathedral, and visited various religious sites along

1:49:50 the way to the Islamic Center, to the Bahá'í Gurdwara, and on down Massachusetts Avenue to end at the way to the Islamic Center, to the Bahá'í Gurdwara, and on down Massachusetts Avenue to end at

1:50:00 the Gandhi statue near Dupont Circle. the Gandhi statue near Dupont Circle.

1:50:10 And in each place, we were invited to step into the worship space of people of a different And in each place, we were invited to step into the worship space of people of a different

1:50:19 faith and to learn something about the practice and beliefs of the people of various faiths, but also faith and to learn something about the practice and beliefs of the people of various faiths, but also

1:50:29 as a witness, as a testimony that we, as people of faith, can stand together against harm to as a witness, as a testimony that we, as people of faith, can stand together against harm to

1:50:39 any members of the human community and against harm to the planet, indeed. any members of the human community and against harm to the planet, indeed.

1:50:49 Thank you. The interfaith movement can be said to have begun in 1893 with the first Parliament of the World's Religions, where Swami Vivekan, in whose honor we are having this gathering, made such a dramatic debut. And from then onwards, in the 20th century, as you know, a large number of interfaith organizations have been set up. Thank you. The interfaith movement can be said to have begun in 1893 with the first Parliament of the World's Religions, where Swami Vivekan, in whose honor we are having this gathering, made such a dramatic debut. And from then onwards, in the 20th century, as you know, a large number of interfaith organizations have been set up.

1:51:18 Juliet Hollister, you remember, the lady who set up the Temple of Understanding that I now chair. There's the IARF, International Organization for Religious Freedom. There's the World Councils of Churches. There are lots and lots of interfaith movements. We've had a lot of meetings. The second Parliament was in Chicago again in 1993. The third was in Cape Town in 1999. The fourth in Barcelona, 2005. The fifth in Melbourne, 2009. And the next one in 2004. Juliet Hollister, you remember, the lady who set up the Temple of Understanding that I now chair. There's the IARF, International Organization for Religious Freedom. There's the World Councils of Churches. There are lots and lots of interfaith movements. We've had a lot of meetings. The second Parliament was in Chicago again in 1993. The third was in Cape Town in 1999. The fourth in Barcelona, 2005. The fifth in Melbourne, 2009. And the next one in 2004.

1:51:48 And lots of other meetings. Now, the methodology of the interfaith movement is to get people of different communities together in a harmonious dialogue, not a shastar art. A shastar art was supposed to prove the superiority of one idea. That is not the view at all of the interfaith movement. And lots of other meetings. Now, the methodology of the interfaith movement is to get people of different communities together in a harmonious dialogue, not a shastar art. A shastar art was supposed to prove the superiority of one idea. That is not the view at all of the interfaith movement.

1:52:09 Neither is it trying to build a syncretic new religion. What it is trying to do is to get people from different religious traditions together so that they can better understand, as his holy words were saying, they can better understand the tenets, basic tenets. I think this meeting itself today is an example of what an interfaith gathering can do. Neither is it trying to build a syncretic new religion. What it is trying to do is to get people from different religious traditions together so that they can better understand, as his holy words were saying, they can better understand the tenets, basic tenets. I think this meeting itself today is an example of what an interfaith gathering can do.

1:52:32 And for example, there could be interfaith prayers. And for example, there could be interfaith prayers.

1:52:36 When you get people of eight different religions in a room all praying, you suddenly realize that if When you get people of eight different religions in a room all praying, you suddenly realize that if

1:52:41 there is a divinity at all, there couldn't be eight different divinities for each religion. there is a divinity at all, there couldn't be eight different divinities for each religion.

1:52:46 It obviously has to be to the same power. It obviously has to be to the same power.

1:52:51 And there again, we come to the Rigvedic dictum, "Ekam sat vipraha bahuda vadhanti." The truth is one. And there again, we come to the Rigvedic dictum, "Ekam sat vipraha bahuda vadhanti." The truth is one.

1:52:55 The wise call it by many names. The wise call it by many names.

1:53:00 But Maulana Sahib says, "Choose one and respect all." So there are multiple paths to the divine. But Maulana Sahib says, "Choose one and respect all." So there are multiple paths to the divine.

1:53:05 Until we realize and respect the fact that there are multiple paths to the divine, there will never Until we realize and respect the fact that there are multiple paths to the divine, there will never

1:53:10 be peace on this earth. be peace on this earth.

1:53:15 If we get into theology, whether we are going to have an atman or don't have an atman, whether we are going to be reborn or not going to be reborn, the only person who's bound to be reborn here is his holiness. All the rest of us, we don't know. If we get into theology, whether we are going to have an atman or don't have an atman, whether we are going to be reborn or not going to be reborn, the only person who's bound to be reborn here is his holiness. All the rest of us, we don't know.

1:53:31 We're going to find out in due course. We're going to find out in due course.

1:53:37 But there's no point arguing because these are theological differences. But there's no point arguing because these are theological differences.

1:53:44 But there are people, as the Reverend has rightly said, there are areas within Assisi we did man and nature. But there are people, as the Reverend has rightly said, there are areas within Assisi we did man and nature.

1:53:50 We did declarations about the importance of safeguarding the earth, the importance of not allowing the natural environment We did declarations about the importance of safeguarding the earth, the importance of not allowing the natural environment

1:53:57 to be destroyed, the importance of the position of women, the importance of looking after children, the importance to be destroyed, the importance of the position of women, the importance of looking after children, the importance

1:54:03 of education, the importance of there are so many areas in which people can work together. of education, the importance of there are so many areas in which people can work together.

1:54:10 And the very process of working together of different religious people will bring about a better understanding of each other. And the very process of working together of different religious people will bring about a better understanding of each other.

1:54:16 So I would say that the answer to this problem is the interfaith movement. So I would say that the answer to this problem is the interfaith movement.

1:54:23 Unfortunately, I must say that the interfaith movement still remains peripheral to human consciousness. Unlike the environmental movement, I was in Stockholm in 1972 for the first UN conference on the human environment. And you see how rapidly that environmental movement shifted into the center of human consciousness. Unfortunately, I must say that the interfaith movement still remains peripheral to human consciousness. Unlike the environmental movement, I was in Stockholm in 1972 for the first UN conference on the human environment. And you see how rapidly that environmental movement shifted into the center of human consciousness.

1:54:46 But the interfaith movement is still peripheral. But the interfaith movement is still peripheral.

1:54:50 One of the problems is that it doesn't have any money. One of the problems is that it doesn't have any money.

1:54:54 In other words, people will spend vast sums of money building churches and temples and gurdwaras and mosques. In other words, people will spend vast sums of money building churches and temples and gurdwaras and mosques.

1:54:59 But the interfaith is nobody's baby. But the interfaith is nobody's baby.

1:55:03 Nobody really ever gives a big endowment to the interfaith movement. Nobody really ever gives a big endowment to the interfaith movement.

1:55:08 So that is. So that is.

1:55:12 I think permission. I think permission.

1:55:17 I have been, I think, the World Parliament of Religions. I have been, I think, the World Parliament of Religions.

1:55:23 I think three, four times I participated. I think three, four times I participated.

1:55:29 But except for that few days of the meeting, the rest of the time, I think, seems sleeping. But except for that few days of the meeting, the rest of the time, I think, seems sleeping.

1:55:35 So firstly, we should be active. So firstly, we should be active.

1:55:41 Then money will come. Then money will come.

1:55:48 I agree, sir. I agree, sir.

1:55:51 I agree with you. I agree with you.

1:55:55 That's definitely true. That's definitely true.

1:55:59 And we have got to be very active. And we have got to be very active.

1:56:02 We try, for example, the Temple of Understanding, our India chapter. We try, for example, the Temple of Understanding, our India chapter.

1:56:06 We are active. We are active.

1:56:10 We have joint programs with a large number of other organizations. We have joint programs with a large number of other organizations.

1:56:13 A symbiosis is needed, different organizations from different religions working together for social service, for uplifting the poor, A symbiosis is needed, different organizations from different religions working together for social service, for uplifting the poor,

1:56:17 for healing the sick, for educating the disadvantaged. for healing the sick, for educating the disadvantaged.

1:56:21 I think that is the way in which we can really move onwards. I think that is the way in which we can really move onwards.

1:56:25 I think promoting the religious understanding, that one way. One way, like you see, there's some crisis, Burmese Buddhist community and Muslim community, some problem, you see, start. I think promoting the religious understanding, that one way. One way, like you see, there's some crisis, Burmese Buddhist community and Muslim community, some problem, you see, start.

1:56:44 And like you see, Sunni and Shia sort of problems. These sort of spots, I think if we organize some sort of delegation, and particularly like Shia and Sunni problem, I think Indian Muslims really can be useful, can effectively work, important work. And like you see, Sunni and Shia sort of problems. These sort of spots, I think if we organize some sort of delegation, and particularly like Shia and Sunni problem, I think Indian Muslims really can be useful, can effectively work, important work.

1:57:08 So I think in the future, firstly, you see, some kind of the organization and the people ready to go these troubled spots, then significant sort of service if we can reduce these conflicts in the name of religion. And also Northern Ireland. I think. So I think in the future, firstly, you see, some kind of the organization and the people ready to go these troubled spots, then significant sort of service if we can reduce these conflicts in the name of religion. And also Northern Ireland. I think.

1:57:37 Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka.

1:57:42 Sri Lanka also, although it's not looked upon as a Hindu-Buddhist conflict, but that is in fact what it is. Right. That's right. Sri Lanka also, although it's not looked upon as a Hindu-Buddhist conflict, but that is in fact what it is. Right. That's right.

1:57:47 So I think that at least you see, think more seriously those troubled spots, mainly using or involving So I think that at least you see, think more seriously those troubled spots, mainly using or involving

1:57:53 religious name, then we should be active in such occasion. religious name, then we should be active in such occasion.

1:57:58 No one, government cannot do this. No one, government cannot do this.

1:58:03 Politicians cannot do that. Politicians cannot do that.

1:58:09 I think in Northern Ireland, I noticed, you see, politicians, no matter how it's going to be through word, they trust. I think sometimes there's a problem, isn't it? So I think a religious person, honest religious person also, you see, those honest religious persons, I think they should be active sort of role in these spots, you see. Then I think that I really feel like that. I think in Northern Ireland, I noticed, you see, politicians, no matter how it's going to be through word, they trust. I think sometimes there's a problem, isn't it? So I think a religious person, honest religious person also, you see, those honest religious persons, I think they should be active sort of role in these spots, you see. Then I think that I really feel like that.

1:58:38 Thank you very much. That is indeed a very. Yes. Well, actually, this has been an amazing experience for me, from the moment of conceptualization to the unfolding of this event. Thank you very much. That is indeed a very. Yes. Well, actually, this has been an amazing experience for me, from the moment of conceptualization to the unfolding of this event.

1:58:54 Now, I know we are in short of time. So let me just express my thanks to eminent personalities like His Holiness Dalai Lama, Maulana Vaiduddin Khan, Dr. Karan Singh, and Reverend Tutu, that because they have so readily accepted my invitation to join this conversational format, which is a little bit different than the other conferences where we get mostly series of monologues. And I'm really grateful that they have responded so candidly, so sincerely to the questions that we have asked. Now, I know we are in short of time. So let me just express my thanks to eminent personalities like His Holiness Dalai Lama, Maulana Vaiduddin Khan, Dr. Karan Singh, and Reverend Tutu, that because they have so readily accepted my invitation to join this conversational format, which is a little bit different than the other conferences where we get mostly series of monologues. And I'm really grateful that they have responded so candidly, so sincerely to the questions that we have asked.