Gujrat Riots | May 23, 2009 - Maulana Wahiduddin Khan

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1. 0:04 Some time ago, Gujarat was the most difficult area to enter, but its bitter memory is still in people's minds. I visited Gujarat perhaps 2 times after Some time ago, Gujarat was the most difficult area to enter, but its bitter memory is still in people's minds. I visited Gujarat perhaps 2 times after ☆
2. 0:34 the riots, and I have read all those reports. I appeared in—especially in English and Urdu papers. I think that, more or less, all the reporters were negative. By negative I mean that the riots, and I have read all those reports. I appeared in—especially in English and Urdu papers. I think that, more or less, all the reporters were negative. By negative I mean that ☆
3. 1:05 they were negative toward the Gujarat administration, except myself. I was not negative, and still I am not negative. Why? People used to take things on face value, and I, according to my nature, always tried to go to the—to the deeper ro they were negative toward the Gujarat administration, except myself. I was not negative, and still I am not negative. Why? People used to take things on face value, and I, according to my nature, always tried to go to the—to the deeper ro ☆
4. 1:35 ots. So, according to my—my study and my experience, the Gujarat episode, there is one aspect of Gujarati sport that is still untold. So I am trying to, to give you the untold aspect of Gujarat ots. So, according to my—my study and my experience, the Gujarat episode, there is one aspect of Gujarati sport that is still untold. So I am trying to, to give you the untold aspect of Gujarat ☆
5. 2:06 episode. According to my experience, the history of Gujarat begins from—from a very strange fact. You know, in 1992, in December 1992, the Babri Masjid of Ayodhya was demolished by Hindus. episode. According to my experience, the history of Gujarat begins from—from a very strange fact. You know, in 1992, in December 1992, the Babri Masjid of Ayodhya was demolished by Hindus. ☆
6. 2:38 It is very strange that all those car sev- sevaks were recruited from Gujarat. From here begins the story. And Ayodhya is a part of district Faizabad, so naturally the car sevaks must be routed, must be recruited from Ay It is very strange that all those car sev- sevaks were recruited from Gujarat. From here begins the story. And Ayodhya is a part of district Faizabad, so naturally the car sevaks must be routed, must be recruited from Ay ☆
7. 3:08 odhya, from Faizabad, from UP, or other adjacent areas. So why they were recruited from Gujarat? Here, from here begins the story. The fact is that in 100—in 1001, one ruler odhya, from Faizabad, from UP, or other adjacent areas. So why they were recruited from Gujarat? Here, from here begins the story. The fact is that in 100—in 1001, one ruler ☆
8. 3:38 from Afghanistan, his name was Mahmud Ghaznavi, he—he came to India via Gujarat, and it is a well-known story that he, at that time, there was a great mandir at Somnath. Somnath mandir was a very well-known mandir, an historical mandir. from Afghanistan, his name was Mahmud Ghaznavi, he—he came to India via Gujarat, and it is a well-known story that he, at that time, there was a great mandir at Somnath. Somnath mandir was a very well-known mandir, an historical mandir. ☆
9. 4:08 So Mahmud Ghaznavi looted Somnath mandir. There were some, uh, gold and jewelry, so he looted the mandir. It is an established fact. And also he demolished the mandir. Unfortunately, no one was to rebuild that mandir. So Mahmud Ghaznavi looted Somnath mandir. There were some, uh, gold and jewelry, so he looted the mandir. It is an established fact. And also he demolished the mandir. Unfortunately, no one was to rebuild that mandir. ☆
10. 4:39 It is very strange that this mandir, this mandir was like a ruin, a cuddle, up to 1947. Over a long period. So it was a source of hate, source of anger, source of revenge among Hindus throughout the long period of histor It is very strange that this mandir, this mandir was like a ruin, a cuddle, up to 1947. Over a long period. So it was a source of hate, source of anger, source of revenge among Hindus throughout the long period of histor ☆
11. 5:09 y. There were so many rumors. In such case, you know, always there are—there are rumors. The spread of rumor is quite usual. So there were some rumors or so many things. Among Gujarati Hindus, there were a spirit of hate and revenge. y. There were so many rumors. In such case, you know, always there are—there are rumors. The spread of rumor is quite usual. So there were some rumors or so many things. Among Gujarati Hindus, there were a spirit of hate and revenge. ☆
12. 5:40 So Gujarat was a very good place to recruit car sevaks and take revenge of Somnath mandir in Ayodhya. So what happened in Ayodhya in 1992? It was just a revenge, action of revenge of that event which happened in 1001 So Gujarat was a very good place to recruit car sevaks and take revenge of Somnath mandir in Ayodhya. So what happened in Ayodhya in 1992? It was just a revenge, action of revenge of that event which happened in 1001 ☆
13. 6:11 . This is the beginning of that, of the Gujarati story. Then, among Muslims, there were some emotional leaders. They committed again a second crime. Demo—to demolish Somnath mandir was the first crime that was committed by Mahmud Ghaznavi. And if you read the Muslims book, . This is the beginning of that, of the Gujarati story. Then, among Muslims, there were some emotional leaders. They committed again a second crime. Demo—to demolish Somnath mandir was the first crime that was committed by Mahmud Ghaznavi. And if you read the Muslims book, ☆
14. 6:42 Mahmud Ghaznavi is said to be the hero among Muslim writers. Then, after 19—after Ayodhya, there were some, some problems. Then it happened that one day Muslims Mahmud Ghaznavi is said to be the hero among Muslim writers. Then, after 19—after Ayodhya, there were some, some problems. Then it happened that one day Muslims ☆
15. 7:13 —perhaps it is an established fact that Muslims burned a bogi. In this bogi, there were all the terrorists were Hindus. So this triggered what you call the Gujarat facade, Gujarat riot. So according to, according to my assessment, in such a situation, —perhaps it is an established fact that Muslims burned a bogi. In this bogi, there were all the terrorists were Hindus. So this triggered what you call the Gujarat facade, Gujarat riot. So according to, according to my assessment, in such a situation, ☆
16. 7:45 the correction begins from revision. I am inclined to give blame to Muslims because during the whole 1000 period, 1000 years, no Muslim other than myself tried to condemn Mahmud Ghaznavi. You cannot mis-mention a single name. the correction begins from revision. I am inclined to give blame to Muslims because during the whole 1000 period, 1000 years, no Muslim other than myself tried to condemn Mahmud Ghaznavi. You cannot mis-mention a single name. ☆
17. 8:18 In our books, Mahmud Ghaznavi is mentioned as Mahmud Ghaznavi Rahmatullah Ali. So during this period, no Muslim tried to condemn openly Mahmud Ghaznavi. This kind of condemnation always served as a soothing act, but it never happened. In our books, Mahmud Ghaznavi is mentioned as Mahmud Ghaznavi Rahmatullah Ali. So during this period, no Muslim tried to condemn openly Mahmud Ghaznavi. This kind of condemnation always served as a soothing act, but it never happened. ☆
18. 8:49 Then burning the bogi in which all the terrorists are Hindus, it triggered the, the riot. Then there is a third factor which is also very important. During that day when Gujarat was—Gujarat was charged, established people who live in Pakistan, Then burning the bogi in which all the terrorists are Hindus, it triggered the, the riot. Then there is a third factor which is also very important. During that day when Gujarat was—Gujarat was charged, established people who live in Pakistan, ☆
19. 9:19 they—established politicians who live in Pakistan, they fired a missile and they find no name other than Ghaznavi. So this missile was named after Ghaznavi, Ghaznavi missile. This act of established politicians, established Pakistani politicians gave a great advantage to they—established politicians who live in Pakistan, they fired a missile and they find no name other than Ghaznavi. So this missile was named after Ghaznavi, Ghaznavi missile. This act of established politicians, established Pakistani politicians gave a great advantage to ☆
20. 9:49 Modi. Modi was direct, Modi's achievement was a direct result of Mahm—of Ghaznavi missile. If you know the story, Modi used to say in his—during his election campaign that in 100—in 1001, there was one Modi. Modi was direct, Modi's achievement was a direct result of Mahm—of Ghaznavi missile. If you know the story, Modi used to say in his—during his election campaign that in 100—in 1001, there was one ☆
21. 10:19 Ghaznavi who came from Afghanistan. He, he traveled from Afghanistan, then he was able to reach Gujarat. Now present Muslim leaders don't know, do not, do not need to travel, to go some travel. No, no, no travel. They, they will fire Ghaznavi who came from Afghanistan. He, he traveled from Afghanistan, then he was able to reach Gujarat. Now present Muslim leaders don't know, do not, do not need to travel, to go some travel. No, no, no travel. They, they will fire ☆
22. 10:50 Ghaznavi—Ghaznavi missile from Pakistan. So if you want to save from, from second attack, second, second Ghaznavi attack, to give me a vote, I will, I will save you. I will save you. You know, Subhash Chandra Bose used to say Ghaznavi—Ghaznavi missile from Pakistan. So if you want to save from, from second attack, second, second Ghaznavi attack, to give me a vote, I will, I will save you. I will save you. You know, Subhash Chandra Bose used to say ☆
23. 11:20 that, "Give me blood and I will give you freedom." Mahmud and Modi used to say that, "Give me a vote, I will save you from Ghaznavi attack." You know, general public have no such, such wisdom which educated people have. So this, this kind of slogan work that, "Give me blood and I will give you freedom." Mahmud and Modi used to say that, "Give me a vote, I will save you from Ghaznavi attack." You know, general public have no such, such wisdom which educated people have. So this, this kind of slogan work ☆
24. 11:50 ed. Modi, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I do believe that Modi's achievement was direct result of established Pakistani politicians' Ghaznavi missile. So all these things have, you have to be took in, in consideration. You cannot give ed. Modi, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I do believe that Modi's achievement was direct result of established Pakistani politicians' Ghaznavi missile. So all these things have, you have to be took in, in consideration. You cannot give ☆
25. 12:20 a judgment simply avoiding all these facts. You cannot begin, you cannot begin, begin the story from that day when riot began in, in, in Gujarati towns. It is, it is unrealistic, unscientific, illogical to begin the story from that day when riot began a judgment simply avoiding all these facts. You cannot begin, you cannot begin, begin the story from that day when riot began in, in, in Gujarati towns. It is, it is unrealistic, unscientific, illogical to begin the story from that day when riot began ☆
26. 12:50 in Ahmedabad or other, other places. So you have to, you have to begin the story from, from the past. This thinking is not by personal thinking. It is, it is Quranic thinking. In Quran there is a term tatfif, at-tatfif. Tatfif is very bad according to Islamic teachings. in Ahmedabad or other, other places. So you have to, you have to begin the story from, from the past. This thinking is not by personal thinking. It is, it is Quranic thinking. In Quran there is a term tatfif, at-tatfif. Tatfif is very bad according to Islamic teachings. ☆
27. 13:32 This, in this verse, it is a Quranic verse. God gives a stern warning for those people who are involved in tatfif. Now, what is tatfif? Tatfif means in controversial matters, you leave the first half of the story and only give the second half of the story. For example, if you have, if you have, This, in this verse, it is a Quranic verse. God gives a stern warning for those people who are involved in tatfif. Now, what is tatfif? Tatfif means in controversial matters, you leave the first half of the story and only give the second half of the story. For example, if you have, if you have, ☆
28. 14:03 um, beaten someone and he also beat you, you tell the story of his, his beating and you, you hide the story of your beating. That is, you know, hiding one part of the story and telling one part of the story. This is tatfif. And tatfif is haram in Islam. So all these um, beaten someone and he also beat you, you tell the story of his, his beating and you, you hide the story of your beating. That is, you know, hiding one part of the story and telling one part of the story. This is tatfif. And tatfif is haram in Islam. So all these ☆
29. 14:33 leaders, all these reporters, all these people gave, committed this kind of crime. They reported Gujarat by act of tatfif. They gave the half, half of the story and they, and they, and they, leaders, all these reporters, all these people gave, committed this kind of crime. They reported Gujarat by act of tatfif. They gave the half, half of the story and they, and they, and they, ☆
30. 15:04 they avoided the half of the story. So I, I cannot afford this kind of tatfif. So I, I'm telling the full story before you. Now, what is the solution? Even today, although on the surface there is, there seems to be no problem, but underground there is they avoided the half of the story. So I, I cannot afford this kind of tatfif. So I, I'm telling the full story before you. Now, what is the solution? Even today, although on the surface there is, there seems to be no problem, but underground there is ☆
31. 15:34 problem. Both the communities are living in suspicion in, in, in some kind hate, some kind of hate, both the communities. So if we want to normalize the situation in real sense of the word, so we have to, you have to narrate the full story, full stor problem. Both the communities are living in suspicion in, in, in some kind hate, some kind of hate, both the communities. So if we want to normalize the situation in real sense of the word, so we have to, you have to narrate the full story, full stor ☆
32. 16:04 y. Without telling the full, full story, you cannot normalize the situation. We have some, there are some, um, members of our mission, these, these people have no such negative thought in Gujarat. There are, there are hundreds of people who are member of our mission y. Without telling the full, full story, you cannot normalize the situation. We have some, there are some, um, members of our mission, these, these people have no such negative thought in Gujarat. There are, there are hundreds of people who are member of our mission ☆
33. 16:34 . Recently I visited Gujarat third time, so I found there, there, there are many readers of our, of our writings, our magazine. So they are completely free of that kind of hate because they know they, they have developed the objective thinking, logical thinking, scientific thinking, Islamic thinking. So . Recently I visited Gujarat third time, so I found there, there, there are many readers of our, of our writings, our magazine. So they are completely free of that kind of hate because they know they, they have developed the objective thinking, logical thinking, scientific thinking, Islamic thinking. So ☆
34. 17:05 they are complex free. So I, I, I, I would like to say that if you want to normalize the situation, if you want not, if you want that this kind of event cannot be repeated in the future, then you have to be realist. You have to, you have to reassess the matter. You have to revise they are complex free. So I, I, I, I would like to say that if you want to normalize the situation, if you want not, if you want that this kind of event cannot be repeated in the future, then you have to be realist. You have to, you have to reassess the matter. You have to revise ☆
35. 17:37 people's thinking. This is my, this is my assessment and now you are free to add anything which you want to add. people's thinking. This is my, this is my assessment and now you are free to add anything which you want to add. ☆
36. 17:58 In, in the narrative you presented of the Gujarat problem, I appreciate the emphasis you laid on how there was a background to whatever happened in 2002. And the background goes beyond 1992 is the point you were making, that it goes all the way back to the beginning of this or the last millennium, um, with Ghaznavi's attack. Now, In, in the narrative you presented of the Gujarat problem, I appreciate the emphasis you laid on how there was a background to whatever happened in 2002. And the background goes beyond 1992 is the point you were making, that it goes all the way back to the beginning of this or the last millennium, um, with Ghaznavi's attack. Now, ☆
37. 18:28 while I appreciate the background, um, the importance of the background as a motivation, uh, for whatever Gujarat government under Modi did, how is that any solace, how is that any remedy to the legal problem that we are all grappling with? The legal problem that needs to be resolved, the need to do justice to hundreds of people who while I appreciate the background, um, the importance of the background as a motivation, uh, for whatever Gujarat government under Modi did, how is that any solace, how is that any remedy to the legal problem that we are all grappling with? The legal problem that needs to be resolved, the need to do justice to hundreds of people who ☆
38. 18:58 lost their near and dear, the cover-up that is going on, you know, it's not some one-time event. Okay, some misguided Muslim youths in a village called Godhra attacked a bogi in which some Hindu passengers, car seaworks were traveling and in the heat of the movement there was some violence. It was not anything so simple. I mean, there was a very clear attempt to use that lost their near and dear, the cover-up that is going on, you know, it's not some one-time event. Okay, some misguided Muslim youths in a village called Godhra attacked a bogi in which some Hindu passengers, car seaworks were traveling and in the heat of the movement there was some violence. It was not anything so simple. I mean, there was a very clear attempt to use that ☆
39. 19:29 episode, whatever the truth behind that episode might have been, there was a very clear, well-established attempt on the part of the administration to use that episode to incite hatred, to create, you know, this kind of disharmony in society. Those dead bodies were very gratuitously taken from Godhra all the way to Ahmedabad and put on display there. You know, VHP and other such Hindutva forces were allowed to call a band and episode, whatever the truth behind that episode might have been, there was a very clear, well-established attempt on the part of the administration to use that episode to incite hatred, to create, you know, this kind of disharmony in society. Those dead bodies were very gratuitously taken from Godhra all the way to Ahmedabad and put on display there. You know, VHP and other such Hindutva forces were allowed to call a band and ☆
40. 19:59 the state machinery, you know, helped them in enforcing that band. And, you know, and that led to a situation, you know, it gave out a signal that it would be allright for people to, you know, indulge in vengeance, to get even with Muslims for what they did to those Hindu passengers. You know, it was in that kind of environment this violence took place in which even a former Muslim MP was not spared. What to talk of, y the state machinery, you know, helped them in enforcing that band. And, you know, and that led to a situation, you know, it gave out a signal that it would be allright for people to, you know, indulge in vengeance, to get even with Muslims for what they did to those Hindu passengers. You know, it was in that kind of environment this violence took place in which even a former Muslim MP was not spared. What to talk of, y ☆
41. 20:29 ou know, nameless Muslims, poor Muslims who were killed or raped and so on. Now, there is a need. It is not enough for us to say, look, Quran says, take the background into account. Please be conscious of the full story. How is that any, any solace for me? I mean, that, to my mind, it gives no justification to Modi to perpetrate this kind of injustice on these people who were in no way responsible ou know, nameless Muslims, poor Muslims who were killed or raped and so on. Now, there is a need. It is not enough for us to say, look, Quran says, take the background into account. Please be conscious of the full story. How is that any, any solace for me? I mean, that, to my mind, it gives no justification to Modi to perpetrate this kind of injustice on these people who were in no way responsible ☆
42. 20:59 for what happened in Ayodhya or what happened in Godhra. I mean, how does this knowledge of what happened over these thousand years or what happened in Somnath. Is that any answer? There's something I would find misplaced or even insensitive about this kind of a response. for what happened in Ayodhya or what happened in Godhra. I mean, how does this knowledge of what happened over these thousand years or what happened in Somnath. Is that any answer? There's something I would find misplaced or even insensitive about this kind of a response. ☆
43. 21:20 Well, I am a very realistic person. Realism is my religion. I would like to say, also I have studied psychology, I would like to say that in such a situation the only remedy can be had from, from, from admission. Well, I am a very realistic person. Realism is my religion. I would like to say, also I have studied psychology, I would like to say that in such a situation the only remedy can be had from, from, from admission. ☆
44. 21:50 In Urdu it is اعتراف. If you admit that I was, I was wrong, then whole scenario will be changed. There is a problem. The, the wrong with the Muslim leaders is that they never admitted that Muslims were wrong. Even up to this date they are trying to prove that Godhra burning was In Urdu it is اعتراف. If you admit that I was, I was wrong, then whole scenario will be changed. There is a problem. The, the wrong with the Muslim leaders is that they never admitted that Muslims were wrong. Even up to this date they are trying to prove that Godhra burning was ☆
45. 22:21 by, by Hindus. It is ridiculous. It is ridiculous. But Muslims are engaged in such kind of argument. So I can say according to my experience that when there is a controversy, you have no option other than to admit your fault, your mistake. By this, by, by admission of your mistake, you by, by Hindus. It is ridiculous. It is ridiculous. But Muslims are engaged in such kind of argument. So I can say according to my experience that when there is a controversy, you have no option other than to admit your fault, your mistake. By this, by, by admission of your mistake, you ☆
46. 22:51 will change the heart of the other, other, other side. Otherwise controversy will continue. So I, I would like to say that VHP and BJP are nothing but reaction of Muslims' wrong behavior. You can change their attitude if you change your own attitude. So according to, I'm a very, very realistic person, in will change the heart of the other, other, other side. Otherwise controversy will continue. So I, I would like to say that VHP and BJP are nothing but reaction of Muslims' wrong behavior. You can change their attitude if you change your own attitude. So according to, I'm a very, very realistic person, in ☆
47. 23:21 such a situation if you try to hide your, your, your, your wrong, then you cannot change the heart of the others. It is impossible. In such situation the problem will continue. Then the one most very important point is that God Almighty has created men and women such a situation if you try to hide your, your, your, your wrong, then you cannot change the heart of the others. It is impossible. In such situation the problem will continue. Then the one most very important point is that God Almighty has created men and women ☆
48. 23:52 and He gave them freedom. Everyone is free. It is this freedom that breeds exploitation, complacency, and different kind of challenges. So you cannot abolish freedom. You cannot abolish exploitation because it is result of freedom. You have no power to abolish the freedom. So there is a verse in the Quran when and He gave them freedom. Everyone is free. It is this freedom that breeds exploitation, complacency, and different kind of challenges. So you cannot abolish freedom. You cannot abolish exploitation because it is result of freedom. You have no power to abolish the freedom. So there is a verse in the Quran when ☆
49. 24:23 it means that you have to plan the situation patiently. Patient planning is the only solution. Realistic planning, patient planning, and objective planning is the only solution. Otherwise if you become emotional and you try to give blame to others, then there is no solution at all. This is, this, this is it means that you have to plan the situation patiently. Patient planning is the only solution. Realistic planning, patient planning, and objective planning is the only solution. Otherwise if you become emotional and you try to give blame to others, then there is no solution at all. This is, this, this is ☆
50. 24:54 according to my experience, this is the, this is the reason also this is Islam. Is it clear? according to my experience, this is the, this is the reason also this is Islam. Is it clear? ☆
51. 25:03 So in our, in our earlier talk. So in our, in our earlier talk. ☆
52. 25:07 By language it is not so nice that yours. By language it is not so nice that yours. ☆
53. 25:11 There is absolutely no issue with the communication. It is to do with the substance of it. Um, the, in our earlier talk at your residence, um, you said that you believe in this concept of heaven because you believe in this sense of justice, that that's the way it has to be. Otherwise, you know, there's so much injustice you see around you, there should be There is absolutely no issue with the communication. It is to do with the substance of it. Um, the, in our earlier talk at your residence, um, you said that you believe in this concept of heaven because you believe in this sense of justice, that that's the way it has to be. Otherwise, you know, there's so much injustice you see around you, there should be ☆
54. 25:41 some compensation to it somewhere. Now, what do we say to people, this is what I was trying to ask you earlier, um, after you gave your talk on Gujarat, what do we say to human beings who actually suffered, directly suffered? We are, this is not a hypothetical question. If many of us, you said that we in the media were some compensation to it somewhere. Now, what do we say to people, this is what I was trying to ask you earlier, um, after you gave your talk on Gujarat, what do we say to human beings who actually suffered, directly suffered? We are, this is not a hypothetical question. If many of us, you said that we in the media were ☆
55. 26:11 being negative. Positive or negative, we dealt with facts as they were. The facts were that justice was not being done. The facts were that witnesses were being bought off or being pressured to scuttle the process of justice. We saw the, we saw what happened in that famous Best Bakery case. And it is because the media reacted, it is because, you know, activists like Teesta Sethalwad, you know, were ver being negative. Positive or negative, we dealt with facts as they were. The facts were that justice was not being done. The facts were that witnesses were being bought off or being pressured to scuttle the process of justice. We saw the, we saw what happened in that famous Best Bakery case. And it is because the media reacted, it is because, you know, activists like Teesta Sethalwad, you know, were ver ☆
56. 26:41 y actively engaged in countering that, you know, cover-up. And it is because the Supreme Court for a change displayed sensitivity to that matter. And it is because they, you know, came up with this activist, you know, order of transferring that case out of Gujarat and, you know, holding a fresh trial in Bombay. All these are very unprecedented things that happened. I'm going into these details to give you an idea of the kind of y actively engaged in countering that, you know, cover-up. And it is because the Supreme Court for a change displayed sensitivity to that matter. And it is because they, you know, came up with this activist, you know, order of transferring that case out of Gujarat and, you know, holding a fresh trial in Bombay. All these are very unprecedented things that happened. I'm going into these details to give you an idea of the kind of ☆
57. 27:11 battles that many of us are engaged in. And these are not small matters. I mean, these are matters that concern feelings. That sense of justice you were referring to in our earlier talk, you know, it is something that is not, you know, abstract. It is something they suffered personally. Somebody's, I mean, somebody like say Bilkis Banu, she lost her children, she lost, she was raped, gang-raped. Now, how do you say to h battles that many of us are engaged in. And these are not small matters. I mean, these are matters that concern feelings. That sense of justice you were referring to in our earlier talk, you know, it is something that is not, you know, abstract. It is something they suffered personally. Somebody's, I mean, somebody like say Bilkis Banu, she lost her children, she lost, she was raped, gang-raped. Now, how do you say to h ☆
58. 27:42 er, you know, all this happened or you should be reconciled to all this that happened to you because some misguided leaders of your community are not acknowledging the wrong that was perpetrated thousand years ago? I mean, there's something very unrealistic and imbalanced about that approach I would think. er, you know, all this happened or you should be reconciled to all this that happened to you because some misguided leaders of your community are not acknowledging the wrong that was perpetrated thousand years ago? I mean, there's something very unrealistic and imbalanced about that approach I would think. ☆
59. 28:03 I'd just like to add something to that. What Manoj is talking about is the legal process of justice, which also gives a sense of justice. And what you're talking about is a moral and ethical sense of justice, which is the justice in the hereafter or justice beyond this life. So is there a clash between the two justices? I mean, is there a clash between the legal process of justice and is there, does it clash with the ethical and the moral principle of justice? I'd just like to add something to that. What Manoj is talking about is the legal process of justice, which also gives a sense of justice. And what you're talking about is a moral and ethical sense of justice, which is the justice in the hereafter or justice beyond this life. So is there a clash between the two justices? I mean, is there a clash between the legal process of justice and is there, does it clash with the ethical and the moral principle of justice? ☆
60. 28:33 I would like to say that we are facing two problem, double problems. First problem was created by some, some stupid Muslim leaders. Mahmud Ghazni was also a stupid leader and those Pakistanis are also stupid leaders who, who named I would like to say that we are facing two problem, double problems. First problem was created by some, some stupid Muslim leaders. Mahmud Ghazni was also a stupid leader and those Pakistanis are also stupid leaders who, who named ☆
61. 29:03 their, their missile after Ghaznavi. It was wrong. Then the second problem is that, that we are suffering, we are victim of human rights activists. It's very strange that all the human rights activists are doing themselves doing injustice because every time their, their missile after Ghaznavi. It was wrong. Then the second problem is that, that we are suffering, we are victim of human rights activists. It's very strange that all the human rights activists are doing themselves doing injustice because every time ☆
62. 29:33 they take side the criminals. It is very strange. Those who are active in human rights, they always take side the, the, the criminals. So the whole system of, the whole advocacy of justice is obsessed with human rights. And I, I don't believe that human rights movement is correct movement because I believe in duties they take side the criminals. It is very strange. Those who are active in human rights, they always take side the, the, the criminals. So the whole system of, the whole advocacy of justice is obsessed with human rights. And I, I don't believe that human rights movement is correct movement because I believe in duties ☆
63. 30:03 rather than rights. I can say that in Islam you cannot find any, any verse that deals with, with rights. No, only duties. Islam wants to, to build duty conscious people, duty conscious society, duty conscious nations. And these human rights activists have reversed this rather than rights. I can say that in Islam you cannot find any, any verse that deals with, with rights. No, only duties. Islam wants to, to build duty conscious people, duty conscious society, duty conscious nations. And these human rights activists have reversed this ☆
64. 30:33 whole course. They are trying to buildright conscious people,right conscious society. This, this creates problem. So nobody is ready to perform the duty. Everyone demands rights, rights, rights. This is the greatest problem we are facing after the British rule. British rule was lesser evil and this, this problem created by human rights activists is greater evil whole course. They are trying to buildright conscious people,right conscious society. This, this creates problem. So nobody is ready to perform the duty. Everyone demands rights, rights, rights. This is the greatest problem we are facing after the British rule. British rule was lesser evil and this, this problem created by human rights activists is greater evil ☆
65. 31:04 because the whole society is nowright conscious society. Right conscious society. How you can, I don't think that any reformer can do anything in such a situation. We need a, we need those persons who areright conscious. We want to establish that kind of society which isright, duty conscious society. Duty conscious, duty conscious persons, duty conscio because the whole society is nowright conscious society. Right conscious society. How you can, I don't think that any reformer can do anything in such a situation. We need a, we need those persons who areright conscious. We want to establish that kind of society which isright, duty conscious society. Duty conscious, duty conscious persons, duty conscio ☆
66. 31:34 us society. It is, it is, it is, it is absent. us society. It is, it is, it is, it is absent. ☆
67. 31:40 So will you please explain. So will you please explain. ☆
68. 31:41 So this is the problem. So this is the problem. ☆
69. 31:42 So will you please explain how human rights activists are backing criminals in the context of Gujarat? So will you please explain how human rights activists are backing criminals in the context of Gujarat? ☆
70. 31:51 They always, they always speak about, about Bilkis. They don't speak about those criminals who, who, who were, who were the beginners. These human rights always speak Bilkis type of event. They always, they always speak about, about Bilkis. They don't speak about those criminals who, who, who were, who were the beginners. These human rights always speak Bilkis type of event. ☆
71. 32:06 Sorry? Sorry? ☆
72. 32:08 These human rights activists always, always speak about the second half of the, of the story. No, I don't know any human rights activist who speaks about the first half, half the story. This, this criminal act. How you can understand an event by ignoring the first half? These human rights activists always, always speak about the second half of the, of the story. No, I don't know any human rights activist who speaks about the first half, half the story. This, this criminal act. How you can understand an event by ignoring the first half? ☆
73. 32:33 Does the first half justify Modi's action? Does the first half justify Modi's action? ☆
74. 32:36 Sorry, I don't, I don't get, I don't, I don't really get your argument or what you are, um, are trying to argue. Is it a problem that human rights activists are fighting for victims? What is the problem about, yeah, fighting for, yeah, for justice? I mean, grassroots groups, NGOs, etc Sorry, I don't, I don't get, I don't, I don't really get your argument or what you are, um, are trying to argue. Is it a problem that human rights activists are fighting for victims? What is the problem about, yeah, fighting for, yeah, for justice? I mean, grassroots groups, NGOs, etc ☆
75. 33:06 ., etc., who are, who are fighting to, to get, get the problems out in the light that has all the massacres in, in Gujarat. What is the problem about that? I'm not sure if maybe I've misunderstand, but it's not clear to me. ., etc., who are, who are fighting to, to get, get the problems out in the light that has all the massacres in, in Gujarat. What is the problem about that? I'm not sure if maybe I've misunderstand, but it's not clear to me. ☆
76. 33:26 In every situation there are root cause, root cause. So these human rights activists don't go to the root cause. Don't go to the root cause. They always speak about the, the, the present situation. Every present, every present situation is result of some, some, some factors that lie in past. So no human rights, human rig In every situation there are root cause, root cause. So these human rights activists don't go to the root cause. Don't go to the root cause. They always speak about the, the, the present situation. Every present, every present situation is result of some, some, some factors that lie in past. So no human rights, human rig ☆
77. 33:56 hts, no human rights activists speak about the past. Also, you know, journalists, people, the definition of journalism is writing the instant, instant history. It is journalism. Journalism means to write the instant history. So journalists, people only know the instant history that is present. hts, no human rights activists speak about the past. Also, you know, journalists, people, the definition of journalism is writing the instant, instant history. It is journalism. Journalism means to write the instant history. So journalists, people only know the instant history that is present. ☆
78. 34:26 Detaching the past, if you detach the past, you can understand the present. And all human rights activists and all journalists always, they are used to detach the past and try to understand the problem simply by seeing the present. This is, this is great injustice. I think that we are victim of human rights activists. Previously we were victim of British rulers. Detaching the past, if you detach the past, you can understand the present. And all human rights activists and all journalists always, they are used to detach the past and try to understand the problem simply by seeing the present. This is, this is great injustice. I think that we are victim of human rights activists. Previously we were victim of British rulers. ☆
79. 34:57 Now we are victim of this kind of human rights activists. They, they due to their activities, now the whole society isright conscious society. Every day there is strike, Bharat Bandh, and, and so many disturbances every day. No one speaks about duty. How you can build a better society with, with such members, with such Now we are victim of this kind of human rights activists. They, they due to their activities, now the whole society isright conscious society. Every day there is strike, Bharat Bandh, and, and so many disturbances every day. No one speaks about duty. How you can build a better society with, with such members, with such ☆
80. 35:27 peoples in which everyone isright conscious. You can see in, in every office you can see that everyone talks about his, his rights. No one talks about his duties. peoples in which everyone isright conscious. You can see in, in every office you can see that everyone talks about his, his rights. No one talks about his duties. ☆
81. 35:40 But human rights, the, the activists, their, their hearts must surely be in theright place because they are fighting for people who have lost everything. Their houses got burned, their family members got killed. They went and saw, they felt that these are the people who need help. And in a legal way, I mean, they need justice in a legal way. The people who did it to them, who for the, for no fault of theirs, they were quietly sleeping in their homes when suddenly a mob descended, threw them out of the house, killed some of them, burned the house, But human rights, the, the activists, their, their hearts must surely be in theright place because they are fighting for people who have lost everything. Their houses got burned, their family members got killed. They went and saw, they felt that these are the people who need help. And in a legal way, I mean, they need justice in a legal way. The people who did it to them, who for the, for no fault of theirs, they were quietly sleeping in their homes when suddenly a mob descended, threw them out of the house, killed some of them, burned the house, ☆
82. 36:10 destroyed their property. I mean, imagine, I, I, I think of it myself. If I'm in a house somewhere and somebody just walks in, throws me out, memes me, what would be my sense of, you know, outrage and sense of anger from, from this kind of disposition and this kind of violence against me? So this, this sense, this creates a great conflict in the mind of the person. And that person is approached by somebody who destroyed their property. I mean, imagine, I, I, I think of it myself. If I'm in a house somewhere and somebody just walks in, throws me out, memes me, what would be my sense of, you know, outrage and sense of anger from, from this kind of disposition and this kind of violence against me? So this, this sense, this creates a great conflict in the mind of the person. And that person is approached by somebody who ☆
83. 36:40 says that I'll try and give you justice. Now, this person who's doing it, maybe a human rights activist, could be a lawyer, could be anybody, is trying to help and find him solace, some kind of, you know, some kind of justice that this so-and-so police officer who asked the policeman to, you know, get away from the spot of violence and let the mobs carry out their, you know, acts of criminality. That, if, if that officer, for example, says that I'll try and give you justice. Now, this person who's doing it, maybe a human rights activist, could be a lawyer, could be anybody, is trying to help and find him solace, some kind of, you know, some kind of justice that this so-and-so police officer who asked the policeman to, you know, get away from the spot of violence and let the mobs carry out their, you know, acts of criminality. That, if, if that officer, for example, ☆
84. 37:10 I'm just giving an example, that officer, that inspector, that cop is not brought to book, then how does, what happens to my sense of justice? I was in a neighborhood with a policeman. The policeman was not there on duty because of which I got robbed. Now, that policeman has to be done justice with because he, he failed only in his duty. He also failed in his duty. If he was there performing his duty just as the mobster thought it was, as I'm just giving an example, that officer, that inspector, that cop is not brought to book, then how does, what happens to my sense of justice? I was in a neighborhood with a policeman. The policeman was not there on duty because of which I got robbed. Now, that policeman has to be done justice with because he, he failed only in his duty. He also failed in his duty. If he was there performing his duty just as the mobster thought it was, as ☆
85. 37:40 that it was hisright to go on a spree of violence, maybe I would have been saved. So that is the sort of the legal framework within which you're trying to understand this problem as to how is, you know, this, the, the person who approaches him as a human rights activist tries to help him file a case and try to get him justice. So I agree to the extent that you're saying that there is a that it was hisright to go on a spree of violence, maybe I would have been saved. So that is the sort of the legal framework within which you're trying to understand this problem as to how is, you know, this, the, the person who approaches him as a human rights activist tries to help him file a case and try to get him justice. So I agree to the extent that you're saying that there is a ☆
86. 38:11 , you know, a lack of complete and holistic understanding on the part of the human rights activist. Maybe he is not looking at the history 500 years ago or 1,000 years ago. He's concernedright now with the present. I agree also that it creates, it has the potential to create more problems because there will be a reaction to what this rights activist is doing. In the other, who will say that, look, I mean, we've suffered for 1,000 years and this guy is trying to, you know, save, you know, the descendant of , you know, a lack of complete and holistic understanding on the part of the human rights activist. Maybe he is not looking at the history 500 years ago or 1,000 years ago. He's concernedright now with the present. I agree also that it creates, it has the potential to create more problems because there will be a reaction to what this rights activist is doing. In the other, who will say that, look, I mean, we've suffered for 1,000 years and this guy is trying to, you know, save, you know, the descendant of ☆
87. 38:41 Ghazni, for example. So, so this, this conflict will go on. There seems no resolution to this conflict regardless of the activities of the human rights activists or the lawyers and the police. So this, this conflict seems to be going on. How does one address this, this conflict? Ghazni, for example. So, so this, this conflict will go on. There seems no resolution to this conflict regardless of the activities of the human rights activists or the lawyers and the police. So this, this conflict seems to be going on. How does one address this, this conflict? ☆
88. 38:59 So you are saying that the intention of the human rights activist is, you know, the well-being of people. So you are saying that the intention of the human rights activist is, you know, the well-being of people. ☆
89. 39:04 Yes, precisely. Yes, precisely. ☆
90. 39:05 So there should not be. So there should not be. ☆
91. 39:06 His own, his own perspective is that he's trying to be of help. Maybe he's not visioned. Maybe he's not visioned enough to understand and look at it from its historical perspective from 1001 AD to 20th century. His own, his own perspective is that he's trying to be of help. Maybe he's not visioned. Maybe he's not visioned enough to understand and look at it from its historical perspective from 1001 AD to 20th century. ☆
92. 39:20 Even if he had been conscious of that historical perspective, how would it have been of any practical help in the, of practical relevance in the context of getting justice? Even if he had been conscious of that historical perspective, how would it have been of any practical help in the, of practical relevance in the context of getting justice? ☆
93. 39:31 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. ☆
94. 39:31 Could he have said, look, Ghazni did this, so it is allright for these guys to rape this Muslim girl? Could he have said, look, Ghazni did this, so it is allright for these guys to rape this Muslim girl? ☆
95. 39:40 Yeah. Yeah. ☆
96. 39:40 Does it, is there any such correlation which could have helped him in his appreciation of the present problem? Does it, is there any such correlation which could have helped him in his appreciation of the present problem? ☆
97. 39:47 I think one part of, you know, the question that, you know, probably you could rephrase to Molana was Molana, they also, Mr. Manoj also asked one thing is that how, you know, to assuage or pacify the victims, theright victims. Because on one hand we are talking about the justice in the hereafter and there is a justice through the legal process. So is there a conflict between the two and within this two, how to actually pacify thoseright victims? That, that you asked,right? I think one part of, you know, the question that, you know, probably you could rephrase to Molana was Molana, they also, Mr. Manoj also asked one thing is that how, you know, to assuage or pacify the victims, theright victims. Because on one hand we are talking about the justice in the hereafter and there is a justice through the legal process. So is there a conflict between the two and within this two, how to actually pacify thoseright victims? That, that you asked,right? ☆
98. 40:14 And how would it have been of any practical relevance if these human rights activists had been more historically aware of what Ghazni did and its, you know, repercussions in today's context? So okay, fine. He is, you know, there's a chain of, you know, recriminations. And how would it have been of any practical relevance if these human rights activists had been more historically aware of what Ghazni did and its, you know, repercussions in today's context? So okay, fine. He is, you know, there's a chain of, you know, recriminations. ☆
99. 40:35 Yeah. Yeah. ☆
100. 40:36 Should I therefore say, okay, let's look at it in that philosophical sense. It is allright for you to have suffered this injustice. Just take it in your stride. You will be rendered justice in the hereafter. Is that, is that what they should have done? Or should they be fighting for justice? And if they fight, would they be accused of being negative? Should I therefore say, okay, let's look at it in that philosophical sense. It is allright for you to have suffered this injustice. Just take it in your stride. You will be rendered justice in the hereafter. Is that, is that what they should have done? Or should they be fighting for justice? And if they fight, would they be accused of being negative? ☆
101. 40:56 Yeah. Yeah. ☆
102. 40:57 It is not, it is not philosophy. It is, it is reality. It is reality. I will, I will repeat again that this world is created by God and he is given freedom to all, total freedom. So everyone is free. So you have to keep in your mind that that, that person is free to do anything, even to misuse his freedom. So you have to, you have to be wise. You, It is not, it is not philosophy. It is, it is reality. It is reality. I will, I will repeat again that this world is created by God and he is given freedom to all, total freedom. So everyone is free. So you have to keep in your mind that that, that person is free to do anything, even to misuse his freedom. So you have to, you have to be wise. You, ☆
103. 41:28 stupid actions, if, if you commit some stupid actions, you have to pay the price. It is, it is against the common sense. I will give an example. In every riot, all the Muslims or non-Muslims both blame police. The police was not just, I, I don't subscribe with this, with this, stupid actions, if, if you commit some stupid actions, you have to pay the price. It is, it is against the common sense. I will give an example. In every riot, all the Muslims or non-Muslims both blame police. The police was not just, I, I don't subscribe with this, with this, ☆
104. 41:59 with this. with this. ☆
105. 42:00 Notion. Notion. ☆
106. 42:01 Notion. Almost invariably what happens there, there is some procession and there is police. So Muslims are very emotional people. They say that change your route, change your route. The, those people who are leading the, the procession, they would say, no, no, why we have, why we change Notion. Almost invariably what happens there, there is some procession and there is police. So Muslims are very emotional people. They say that change your route, change your route. The, those people who are leading the, the procession, they would say, no, no, why we have, why we change ☆
107. 42:31 our route? This is public road. So then Muslims asked police, check this, control this mob and compel them to, to change their route. But police are not for this purpose over there. So they will throw a stone. There is a common story of every riot. And then what happens? In the, in the beginning, the problem was our route? This is public road. So then Muslims asked police, check this, control this mob and compel them to, to change their route. But police are not for this purpose over there. So they will throw a stone. There is a common story of every riot. And then what happens? In the, in the beginning, the problem was ☆
108. 43:02 between Muslims and Hindu processionists. Muslims are, are Hindu, you can say. But after throwing a stone, the problem becomes between Muslims and police. If you throw a stone at police, he's also, they are also human beings. They will get angry. They will fire you. So I always between Muslims and Hindu processionists. Muslims are, are Hindu, you can say. But after throwing a stone, the problem becomes between Muslims and police. If you throw a stone at police, he's also, they are also human beings. They will get angry. They will fire you. So I always ☆
109. 43:33 advise Muslims not to touch the police. Strictly you have to say what you want to say with, with, with procession people, not police. But in every riot, Muslims throw a stone to police and police become angry and they will fire. This is a common story. But I, I, I've read that journalist people are also advise Muslims not to touch the police. Strictly you have to say what you want to say with, with, with procession people, not police. But in every riot, Muslims throw a stone to police and police become angry and they will fire. This is a common story. But I, I, I've read that journalist people are also ☆
110. 44:04 human rights activists hide this, this. And they've begun saying against it, police, police is this, police is that. Except myself, I'm only person perhaps in this country who is, who is not negative towards police. All people are talking against the police. Why? Because they have, they have, they, they want to understand the story human rights activists hide this, this. And they've begun saying against it, police, police is this, police is that. Except myself, I'm only person perhaps in this country who is, who is not negative towards police. All people are talking against the police. Why? Because they have, they have, they, they want to understand the story ☆
111. 44:34 without including the stone throwing. This is a common story. So it is, it is against the common sense that someone will enter your house and begin burning and killing. It is against the common sense. There must be some past. There must be some, some, something more. So without without including the stone throwing. This is a common story. So it is, it is against the common sense that someone will enter your house and begin burning and killing. It is against the common sense. There must be some past. There must be some, some, something more. So without ☆
112. 45:04 adding that, that thing, you can understand the story and also you cannot correct the situation. adding that, that thing, you can understand the story and also you cannot correct the situation. ☆
113. 45:16 Molana, what should the victim do and what should be done to the one who has committed the crime? Molana, what should the victim do and what should be done to the one who has committed the crime? ☆
114. 45:24 Molana is asking what should the victim do and what should be done to the victim. Molana is asking what should the victim do and what should be done to the victim. ☆
115. 45:29 Victim, this one, even victim, except myself, no victim, this one, they are, they are leaders. Victim, this one, even victim, except myself, no victim, this one, they are, they are leaders. ☆
116. 45:39 The victim would often be. The victim would often be. ☆
117. 45:41 Why, why victim not disowning? These victims, why they are not disowning. They are, they are, they are leaders. They always talk about other community. They never talk about their community leaders. It's not very simple. These are naive victims. These victims are naive people. Why, why victim not disowning? These victims, why they are not disowning. They are, they are, they are leaders. They always talk about other community. They never talk about their community leaders. It's not very simple. These are naive victims. These victims are naive people. ☆
118. 46:05 I think we are, we are misjudging the situation. I think we are, we are misjudging the situation. ☆
119. 46:08 The person who has lost his family, his. The person who has lost his family, his. ☆
120. 46:10 Until the experience you had at Morari Bapu's program. So how Muslims and Hindus are living harmoniously together in that part of the place. Until the experience you had at Morari Bapu's program. So how Muslims and Hindus are living harmoniously together in that part of the place. ☆
121. 46:21 No, no, there's a point. I think on different occasions, Molana dealt with these, you know, issues and I would like to share with you a little bit which is directly proportional to what he has asked, this gentleman. What should a victim do and what should be done to a person who has perpetrated that kind of, you know, crime or that thing? If the victim is a Muslim, like in Gujarat case, there's no harm in seeking justice if the state government, state or the government No, no, there's a point. I think on different occasions, Molana dealt with these, you know, issues and I would like to share with you a little bit which is directly proportional to what he has asked, this gentleman. What should a victim do and what should be done to a person who has perpetrated that kind of, you know, crime or that thing? If the victim is a Muslim, like in Gujarat case, there's no harm in seeking justice if the state government, state or the government ☆
122. 46:51 machinery is providing that justice. There's no, there's no harm in seeking the justice. machinery is providing that justice. There's no, there's no harm in seeking the justice. ☆
123. 46:56 It's never offered to you on a plateau. You have to fight. That is where human rights activists, that is where the media, they all come in,right? It's never offered to you on a plateau. You have to fight. That is where human rights activists, that is where the media, they all come in,right? ☆
124. 47:04 See, if the state machinery is active enough to identify that this is wrong, this isright and all that thing, a person can see, person can approve the state government that, okay, I've been victimized and this is the wrong has been done to me. He can seek that thing. But whether justice is being given to him or not, that depends upon the state machinery. As far as the theological perspective is concerned, what Molana has been explaining is that this life is very See, if the state machinery is active enough to identify that this is wrong, this isright and all that thing, a person can see, person can approve the state government that, okay, I've been victimized and this is the wrong has been done to me. He can seek that thing. But whether justice is being given to him or not, that depends upon the state machinery. As far as the theological perspective is concerned, what Molana has been explaining is that this life is very ☆
125. 47:34 short. I'm talking about the human birth and the death and all that thing. There is a creation plan that man will always face adverse situations. So much so that there will be situations when you will be totally helpless. There will be atrocities, there will be torture, there will be so many adverse situations over there. So in that situation, the best course is to seek help from Almighty, from God. Correct your thinking, always investigate short. I'm talking about the human birth and the death and all that thing. There is a creation plan that man will always face adverse situations. So much so that there will be situations when you will be totally helpless. There will be atrocities, there will be torture, there will be so many adverse situations over there. So in that situation, the best course is to seek help from Almighty, from God. Correct your thinking, always investigate ☆
126. 48:04 into the matter, try to find out what was the root cause behind this thing and be patient in that situation. He's giving the theological perspective. And at the same time, if you have been victimized. into the matter, try to find out what was the root cause behind this thing and be patient in that situation. He's giving the theological perspective. And at the same time, if you have been victimized. ☆
127. 48:16 So isn't there a conflict there? Theological perspective tells me, take it in your stride. Look at it in the larger perspective. So isn't there a conflict there? Theological perspective tells me, take it in your stride. Look at it in the larger perspective. ☆
128. 48:26 Okay. Okay. ☆
129. 48:27 And, you know, carry on. Move on. Right? The legal perspective is don't let it go because that is what will, you know, is your, is the remedy that you are entitled to. And, you know, carry on. Move on. Right? The legal perspective is don't let it go because that is what will, you know, is your, is the remedy that you are entitled to. ☆
130. 48:43 See, the legal system over a period of so many centuries. See, the legal system over a period of so many centuries. ☆
131. 48:48 I'm pointing out the conflict, contradiction. I'm pointing out the conflict, contradiction. ☆
132. 48:51 That's precisely what I also said. The conflict between legal process, legal sense of justice and the moral and ethical sense of justice. That's precisely what I also said. The conflict between legal process, legal sense of justice and the moral and ethical sense of justice. ☆
133. 48:57 So we are told that Molana says that do not take law into your hand. Let the legal system handle the situation. What, you know, he says. So we are told that Molana says that do not take law into your hand. Let the legal system handle the situation. What, you know, he says. ☆
134. 49:04 That's not the description. That's not the description. ☆
135. 49:08 Well, for me, it seems like one of the major points in this discussion is whether you can use this holistic approach where you are having history in your mind to understand why did this, did this happen in Gujarat. But I don't think you can use that approach when you have to find the answers in the present. I mean, what, what, like we had discussion here, what do you say to the Well, for me, it seems like one of the major points in this discussion is whether you can use this holistic approach where you are having history in your mind to understand why did this, did this happen in Gujarat. But I don't think you can use that approach when you have to find the answers in the present. I mean, what, what, like we had discussion here, what do you say to the ☆
136. 49:38 family members who have lost their fathers and mothers? When I was in Gujarat, I met a 70-year-old young woman and she, she saw her little sister and her father got burned. It was just Hindu crowds coming into their apartment and just took away her father and little sister. So how, what, what can. family members who have lost their fathers and mothers? When I was in Gujarat, I met a 70-year-old young woman and she, she saw her little sister and her father got burned. It was just Hindu crowds coming into their apartment and just took away her father and little sister. So how, what, what can. ☆
137. 50:07 What can he say to the. What can he say to the. ☆
138. 50:09 What, what can we say to, how can she, she begin to study history to find justice? I don't think we, I mean. What, what can we say to, how can she, she begin to study history to find justice? I don't think we, I mean. ☆
139. 50:16 I, I get it. I, I get it. ☆
140. 50:17 I don't think it's enough just. I don't think it's enough just. ☆
141. 50:18 Sorry, I'm cutting you short because we are short on time. I'm really sorry. Molana, one thing that is coming again and again is that what, what do you say to those victims who've lost their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, or children? Because they are the victims. So how do we address that? Sorry, I'm cutting you short because we are short on time. I'm really sorry. Molana, one thing that is coming again and again is that what, what do you say to those victims who've lost their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, or children? Because they are the victims. So how do we address that? ☆
142. 50:32 No. The basic problem is that it is a 50-50. It is a 50-50 problem. 50, admission can do only 50%. You people want the, that admission must do the whole, whole thing. It is not possible. Impossible. 50% lies upon the community and 50% upon the administration. If commun No. The basic problem is that it is a 50-50. It is a 50-50 problem. 50, admission can do only 50%. You people want the, that admission must do the whole, whole thing. It is not possible. Impossible. 50% lies upon the community and 50% upon the administration. If commun ☆
143. 51:02 ity fails to perform his 50%, then there's no remedy at all. No remedy at all. So this is the point that you have to teach the community that you have to perform your 50%. Otherwise, you will, you will suffer. You will suffer in this world. No administration, no police, no, no, no judicial ity fails to perform his 50%, then there's no remedy at all. No remedy at all. So this is the point that you have to teach the community that you have to perform your 50%. Otherwise, you will, you will suffer. You will suffer in this world. No administration, no police, no, no, no judicial ☆
144. 51:32 system can give you the 100%. It is impossible. Quite impossible. system can give you the 100%. It is impossible. Quite impossible. ☆
145. 51:38 Molana, when you say that 50% has to be done by the community, do you mean to say that. Molana, when you say that 50% has to be done by the community, do you mean to say that. ☆
146. 51:43 No, no. Which community? No community is doing his, his, his 50%. At least Muslim community is not doing his 50%. They are only engaged in protest, in demand, in complaint. This is not 50%. You have to train the people's mind. You have to re-engineer the mind. You have to make them positive. You have to remove the negativity. You have to normalize the situation. No, no. Which community? No community is doing his, his, his 50%. At least Muslim community is not doing his 50%. They are only engaged in protest, in demand, in complaint. This is not 50%. You have to train the people's mind. You have to re-engineer the mind. You have to make them positive. You have to remove the negativity. You have to normalize the situation. ☆
147. 52:13 So let me, let me try and show to you the flaw in invoking history in a context like this. You know, it, it could very well cut the other way also. In the context of terror, for instance, it is Pakistan which keeps saying, look, terror attacks on India cannot stop till you resolve the root cause, namely Pakistan. So we would always be very disdainful of any attempt to bring up this, So let me, let me try and show to you the flaw in invoking history in a context like this. You know, it, it could very well cut the other way also. In the context of terror, for instance, it is Pakistan which keeps saying, look, terror attacks on India cannot stop till you resolve the root cause, namely Pakistan. So we would always be very disdainful of any attempt to bring up this, ☆
148. 52:43 you know, issue of root cause. We would say, don't talk about root cause at all. Terrorism cannot be justified on the basis of any root cause is what our considered and consistent stand has been. Now, how can we allow Modi, of all the people, to, you know, take refuge in this root cause of violence, namely Ghaznavi that goes back a thousand years? you know, issue of root cause. We would say, don't talk about root cause at all. Terrorism cannot be justified on the basis of any root cause is what our considered and consistent stand has been. Now, how can we allow Modi, of all the people, to, you know, take refuge in this root cause of violence, namely Ghaznavi that goes back a thousand years? ☆
149. 53:06 No, Kashmir reference is not right. Kashmir is not the root cause. No, Kashmir reference is notright. Kashmir is not the root cause. ☆
150. 53:11 Well, that's what Pakistan keeps saying. All this rhetoric from Pakistan government. Well, that's what Pakistan keeps saying. All this rhetoric from Pakistan government. ☆
151. 53:15 But Kashmir is not root cause. Kashmir is the result of their stupid policy. Kashmir is result of stupid policy of Pakistanis. You can read some books. I, I can and I can refer you four books at least. One was written by Meherchand Mahajan, Looking Back. The second was written by a Pakistan leader, Chaudhry. Emerg But Kashmir is not root cause. Kashmir is the result of their stupid policy. Kashmir is result of stupid policy of Pakistanis. You can read some books. I, I can and I can refer you four books at least. One was written by Meherchand Mahajan, Looking Back. The second was written by a Pakistan leader, Chaudhry. Emerg ☆
152. 53:45 ence of Pakistan. The third was written by a Christian writer, Witness to an Era. And the fourth was written by also a Muslim Pakistan leader. A nation that lost its soul. ence of Pakistan. The third was written by a Christian writer, Witness to an Era. And the fourth was written by also a Muslim Pakistan leader. A nation that lost its soul. ☆
153. 54:05 A nation that lost its soul. A nation that lost its soul. ☆
154. 54:09 Shawkat Hayat. Shawkat Hayat. ☆
155. 54:09 Shawkat Hayat. Shawkat Hayat. ☆
156. 54:11 Shawkat Hayat. Shawkat Hayat. You can read these four books. Kashmir was, was result of stupid policies of Pakistani people. That's quite different story. Shawkat Hayat. Shawkat Hayat. You can read these four books. Kashmir was, was result of stupid policies of Pakistani people. That's quite different story. ☆