Name: Research On Maulana by Dr. Mattias Dahlkvist, Sweden Peace Conference April 29-30, 2023 — Maulana Wahiduddin Khan
Uploaded: 2023-01-01
Duration: 1 h 4 min 25 s
Channel: Maulana Wahiduddin Khan
Description: Read the full transcript of “Research On Maulana by Dr. Mattias Dahlkvist, Sweden Peace Conference April 29-30, 2023”, a lecture by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, with timestamps.

0:13 assalamalikum everyone. welcome to day two of cps peace conference and it gives me great pleasure to introduce to all of you our first speaker today, doctor matthias dalquist. let me just read out a brief profile on him. अस्लामालिकुम everyone. Welcome to day two of CPS peace conference and it gives me great pleasure to introduce to all of you our first speaker today, doctor Matthias Dalquist. Let me just read out a brief profile on him.

0:34 doctor matthias dalquist is a senior lecturer in the history of religion at the university of lincopink, phd at umia university, sweden in the scientific study of religion. his research interest focus on islam and globalization and the arrival of islam and muslims in relation to traditions of christianity and secular culture in scandinavia. Doctor Matthias Dalquist is a senior lecturer in the history of religion at the University of Lincopink, PhD at Umia University, Sweden in the scientific study of religion. His research interest focus on Islam and globalization and the arrival of Islam and Muslims in relation to traditions of Christianity and secular culture in Scandinavia.

1:02 doctor dalkvis teaches a study of religion with a focus on islam, especially in india. also teaches at both the bachelor's and master's level judaism, christianity, hinduism, buddhism, the history of non violent conflict and the sociology of religion. doctor matthias, our heartfelt thanks to you. Doctor दाल्कविस teaches a study of religion with a focus on Islam, especially in India. Also teaches at both the Bachelor's and Master's level Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, the history of non violent conflict and the sociology of religion. Doctor Matthias, our heartfelt thanks to you.

1:28 you came all the way from sweden to be a participant at cpsp's international conference. I also, you know, on behalf of cps acknowledge all your efforts in terms of introducing our founder, molana vedudin khan sahib's ideology to many of the, you know, upcoming research scholars. You came all the way from Sweden to be a participant at CPSP's international conference. I also, you know, on behalf of CPS acknowledge all your efforts in terms of introducing our founder, मुलाना वेदुदीन खान साहब's ideology to many of the, you know, upcoming research scholars.

1:52 and I remember doctor matthias used to come from sweden to spend time with molana sahib and, you know, with this questionnaire. and molana particularly, you know, he had great appreciation, you know, for your sincerity, for your dedication. and we all felt, you know, in those meetings that there was a there was a connect heart to heart with you. you are our brother, doctor matthias. And I remember doctor Matthias used to come from Sweden to spend time with Molana साहब and, you know, with this questionnaire. And Molana particularly, you know, he had great appreciation, you know, for your sincerity, for your dedication. And we all felt, you know, in those meetings that there was a there was a connect heart to heart with you. You are our brother, doctor Matthias.

2:19 and on behalf of center for peace and spirituality family, we welcome you to delhi, to cps conference. and I remember in one of the last interactions you told molana that, you know, your voice should go to the global community and therefore you should do your live sunday talks in english, if you remember. And on behalf of Center for Peace and Spirituality family, we welcome you to Delhi, to CPS conference. And I remember in one of the last interactions you told Molana that, you know, your voice should go to the global community and therefore you should do your live Sunday talks in English, if you remember.

2:45 So Molana in a lighter mode said that, yes, I will do in English provided you watch them live. So Molana in a lighter mode said that, yes, I will do in English provided you watch them live.

2:50 And doctor mathayaz, are happy to tell you that we have more than 100 lectures of mulana sahib And doctor मथायाज़, are happy to tell you that we have more than 100 lectures of मुलाना साहब

2:55 in English now. in English now.

3:00 So and one of the reason is, you know, you're asking him to to do it in English. So and one of the reason is, you know, you're asking him to to do it in English.

3:05 So thank you so much. So thank you so much.

3:10 CPS family welcomes you. CPS family welcomes you.

3:15 And with this, I invite you to come here and begin your talk. Doctor. Matthias Dalquist. And with this, I invite you to come here and begin your talk. Doctor. Matthias Dalquist.

3:20 I'm I'm very happy to be here. I'm very honored to be here among friends. And, I will do this talk. I will try to be as personal as I can because this is also a way to remember Maulana Wahiduddin Khan. I'm I'm very happy to be here. I'm very honored to be here among friends. And, I will do this talk. I will try to be as personal as I can because this is also a way to remember Maulana Wahiru Dinkan.

3:47 So I will try to talk a little about my personal experiences. But toward the end, I will become more academic, more scholarly, perhaps torture you a little. So please keep a little have a little patience, please. Sub. So I will try to talk a little about my personal experiences. But toward the end, I will become more academic, more scholarly, perhaps torture you a little. So please keep a little have a little patience, please. Sub.

4:13 I will try and do three things at this lecture or I I don't want to call it a lecture because we're we're not having exams towards the end. But we'll we'll let's let's try and make it a dialogue. We will I will try to converge about three things. How about learning the thought of Maulana Wahedruddin Khan in context. I will try and do three things at this lecture or I I don't want to call it a lecture because we're we're not having exams towards the end. But we'll we'll let's let's try and make it a dialogue. We will I will try to converge about three things. How about learning the thought of Malana Wahedruddin Khan in context.

4:41 I will tell you something about teaching the thought of Malana Wahidur in common context. I will tell you something about teaching the thought of Malana Wahidur in common context.

4:48 What does what what does that mean in Scandinavia, in Sweden, in Europe, and for me as a university teacher? What does what what does that mean in Scandinavia, in Sweden, in Europe, and for me as a university teacher?

4:56 And towards the end, that's where I'm becoming more scholarly perhaps or more academic. And towards the end, that's where I'm becoming more scholarly perhaps or more academic.

5:04 I will try to say a few things about applying the thought of Maulana Waheedunin Khan in context. I will try to say a few things about applying the thought of Maulana Waheedunin Khan in context.

5:12 So we have these these different context. Alright. I was asked, how how did this all begin? Why did you write a book or make a PhD thesis about Maulana, why you did it in Khan? So we have these these different context. Alright. I was asked, how how did this all begin? Why did you write a book or make a PhD thesis about Maulana, why you did it in Khan?

5:31 It began in 2010 when me and my, then supervisor, professor Thomas Lindgren at Eumio University, we had this very, popular course, a class called religion, fundamentalism, and violence. And honestly, we were it was so popular. We had hundreds of students. We were tired of only talking about religion, fundamentalism, and violence. It began in 2010 when me and my, then supervisor, professor Thomas Lindgren at Eumio University, we had this very, popular course, a class called religion, fundamentalism, and violence. And honestly, we were it was so popular. We had hundreds of students. We were tired of only talking about religion, fundamentalism, and violence.

6:00 We oh, excellent. Thank you so much. We wanted to talk about the other side of religion, the one that is not often talked about in European secular culture, in Scandinavian secular culture. We wanted to highlight that. We wanted to highlight religion, nonviolence, and peace building. So we started another class, and that became very popular as well. We oh, excellent. Thank you so much. We wanted to talk about the other side of religion, the one that is not often talked about in European secular culture, in Scandinavian secular culture. We wanted to highlight that. We wanted to highlight religion, nonviolence, and peace building. So we started another class, and that became very popular as well.

6:28 The class religion, nonviolence, and peace building. And through that literature, that's how I encountered Maulana Wahidur in Qan. I started reading his works and mentioning him in class, in teaching, as an important example of a contemporary Muslim scholar of Islam, peace, and nonviolence. The class was very popular. The class religion, nonviolence, and peace building. And through that literature, that's how I encountered Maulana Wahidur in Qan. I started reading his works and mentioning him in class, in teaching, as an important example of a contemporary Muslim scholar of Islam, peace, and nonviolence. The class was very popular.

6:54 And that awareness created the foundation for the research project. I wanted to write a a PhD thesis about nonviolence and peace building in Islam, and that began in 2012. And that awareness created the foundation for the research project. I wanted to write a a PhD thesis about nonviolence and peace building in Islam, and that began in 2012.

7:13 So I had the idea that I wanted to write about nonviolence and peace building in Islam from as many contexts as possible. I wanted to write about it from Thailand, in Palestine, in The US, and in India, mentioning Maulana White in the column. So I had the idea that I wanted to write about nonviolence and peace building in Islam from as many contexts as possible. I wanted to write about it from Thailand, in Palestine, in The US, and in India, mentioning Maulana White in the column.

7:38 Now these examples, and I could mention other Muslim contemporary scholars, what I found was their writings were few, and they were quite short. But not so with Maulana Wahidrud and Khan. But I still have this in mind, you know. Sometimes your Maulano Wahedrun and Khan told us that your mind tends to get stuck. Now these examples, and I could mention other Muslim contemporary scholars, what I found was their writings were few, and they were quite short. But not so with Maulana Wahidrud and Khan. But I still have this in mind, you know. Sometimes your Maulano Wahedrun and Khan told us that your mind tends to get stuck.

8:03 We and that's and that's where I was. I I was so focused on on that research project. Anyways, thanks to, Rajat and the other members of the CPS, I began my interviews in with Maulana Wahidurna Khan in December 2013. We and that's and that's where I was. I I was so focused on on that research project. Anyways, thanks to, Rajat and the other members of the CPS, I began my interviews in with Maulana Wahidurna Khan in December 2013.

8:31 And I will tell you a lit have a little patience, please. I will tell you a little more about that particular experience. And the interviews were so rich that I decided, okay. I need more answers. I I need more. There's there's so much here. So I decided to come back. So I went back to Delhi in 2014 for another round of interviews. And I will tell you a lit have a little patience, please. I will tell you a little more about that particular experience. And the interviews were so rich that I decided, okay. I need more answers. I I need more. There's there's so much here. So I decided to come back. So I went back to Delhi in 2014 for another round of interviews.

8:55 And like Rajat said, I I I personally felt that the interviews were very rich. And like Rajat said, I I I personally felt that the interviews were very rich.

9:03 It was an it was an engaging dialogue with Maulana. It was an it was an engaging dialogue with Maulana.

9:12 Why don't you call? Why don't you call?

9:20 So after the second round of interviews, I decided I will focus my research only on Maulana. Don't call? So after the second round of interviews, I decided I will focus my research only on Maulana. Don't call?

9:29 So between 2000 and 2016, all I did was to read the text of Maulana, Wahidur and Khan. Everything I could find. And you all know this. There are hundreds of books and articles. So between 2000 and 2016, all I did was to read the text of Maulana, Wahidur and Khan. Everything I could find. And you all know this. There are hundreds of books and articles.

9:48 And I had to decide to use what sources in the contemporary period because CPS was starting to broadcast Maulana Wahadidu Nkong's IDs in different, venues. For instance, the live talks through the web page. Do you remember those? I participated in one of those on one Sunday morning in Delhi in December 2013. And I had to decide to use what sources in the contemporary period because CPS was starting to broadcast Malana Wahadidu Nkong's IDs in different, venues. For instance, the live talks through the web page. Do you remember those? I participated in one of those on one Sunday morning in Delhi in December 2013.

10:18 But I decided that interviews and the English text of Maulana Waidun and Khan. That's what I was going to focus on. And that's the source material, main source material used for my book, but, okay. So I I was trying to grasp. I was trying to understand the message. But I decided that interviews and the English text of Malana Waidun and Khan. That's what I was going to focus on. And that's the source material, main source material used for my book, but, okay. So I I was trying to grasp. I was trying to understand the message.

10:47 I I I I engaged with this message, but I I I felt there was something missing. I felt that I couldn't understand it. And for research, I needed an analytical point of view. And I realized I have to understand his message in a context. So I had to learn what amounted to two in related context. I I I I engaged with this message, but I I I felt there was something missing. I felt that I couldn't understand it. And for research, I needed an analytical point of view. And I realized I have to understand his message in a context. So I had to learn what amounted to two in related context.

11:13 I had to understand the Indian context of debate over Islam. The public debate over Islam. Different Muslim interpreters of Islam. And who and what positions were Maulana engaging with? Who was he addressing? I had to understand the Indian context of debate over Islam. The public debate over Islam. Different Muslim interpreters of Islam. And who and what positions were Malana engaging with? Who was he addressing?

11:39 While I was writing, I more and more understood that his audience, his the context he was addressing was becoming more and more global. So the research was changing as I was doing it because it was not only the the Indian context, but it was more and more the global context. While I was writing, I more and more understood that his audience, his the context he was addressing was becoming more and more global. So the research was changing as I was doing it because it was not only the the Indian context, but it was more and more the global context.

12:02 So between 2016 and 2019, I was not only trying to understand the history of Islam in India, that is from the modern period from the seventeen hundreds, and the following development of Hindu Muslim relations in India. But I was also more and more trying to understand the global significance. How is Islam perceived in the world? So between 2016 and 2019, I was not only trying to understand the history of Islam in India, that is from the modern period from the seventeen hundreds, and the following development of Hindu Muslim relations in India. But I was also more and more trying to understand the global significance. How is Islam perceived in the world?

12:30 So on the one hand, I understood that there's an Indian and a global anti Muslim agitation. And in my analysis, I found that Maulana was addressing the anti Muslim ideology and by presenting the authentic Islam the way he saw it. So on the one hand, I understood that there's an Indian and a global anti Muslim agitation. And in my analysis, I found that Maulana was addressing the anti Muslim ideology and by presenting the authentic Islam the way he saw it.

12:59 And on the other hand, Maulana was addressing the actual instances of Indian and global Muslim terrorist attacks And on the other hand, Maulana was addressing the actual instances of Indian and global Muslim terrorist attacks

13:09 and how to counter these influences both at both at from from the perspective of of trying to and how to counter these influences both at both at from from the perspective of of trying to

13:20 change Muslims, but also trying to address non Muslims in India and and and the world. change Muslims, but also trying to address non Muslims in India and and and the world.

13:31 Alright. So I came back to Delhi for a third round of interviews. And in 2016, I had what amounted to six interviews with Maulana for a total of eighteen hours of interview material. Alright. So I came back to Delhi for a third round of interviews. And in 2016, I had what amounted to six interviews with Maulana for a total of eighteen hours of interview material.

13:59 And at the dissertation defense, the faculty opponent, Jan Yarpe, he's the he's the most famous, scholar of Islamic studies in India and, sorry, in in in Sweden. And he's he's the dean of Islamic studies in in Sweden. And at the dissertation defense, the faculty opponent, Jan Yarpe, he's the he's the most famous, scholar of Islamic studies in India and, sorry, in in in Sweden. And he's he's the dean of Islamic studies in in Sweden.

14:25 He told me, so you spent twenty hours with your questions of of a more than a 90 year old man? What's wrong with you? And he was right, of course. He told me, so you spent twenty hours with your questions of of a more than a 90 year old man? What's wrong with you? And he was right, of course.

14:42 But on the other hand, I felt that what happened when I, have the possibility to interview Malana was what happened to me personally was I got excited. I got excited because he was someone who excelled in logic. But on the other hand, I felt that what happened when I, have the possibility to interview Malana was what happened to me personally was I got excited. I got excited because he was someone who excelled in logic.

15:09 I I I and his children and grandchildren and those of you who knew him well will have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that his personality was or his psychology was oriented around logic and ideas. I think his main interest was ideas. I I I and his children and grandchildren and those of you who knew him well will have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that his personality was or his psychology was oriented around logic and ideas. I think his main interest was ideas.

15:32 And there's some research, some psychology research about this that so there there's a certain very small number of people, about 2%, 2% of the population who are mainly oriented around IDs and logic and originality. And there's some research, some psychology research about this that so there there's a certain very small number of people, about 2%, 2% of the population who are mainly oriented around IDs and logic and originality.

15:57 So, the way I understand his development as a thinker, for instance, in his youth, he engaged with So, the way I understand his development as a thinker, for instance, in his youth, he engaged with

16:04 a secular materialist philosophy of Bertrand Russell, the British philosopher. a secular materialist philosophy of Bertrand Russell, the British philosopher.

16:12 Now that's that's a mind who is oriented around originality. Now that's that's a mind who is oriented around originality.

16:20 That is, one wants to engage with original IDs and try to work it out. That is, one wants to engage with original IDs and try to work it out.

16:28 And, Of course, logic, originality, knowledge, intelligence, those all goes to goes together in this kind of personality. And, Of course, logic, originality, knowledge, intelligence, those all goes to goes together in this kind of personality.

16:46 However, I think knowledge was more the basis for formulating the IDs and for formulating and engaging with original IDs. And why are some people engaged with or driven by IDs and logic? However, I think knowledge was more the basis for formulating the IDs and for formulating and engaging with original IDs. And why are some people engaged with or driven by IDs and logic?

17:11 Well, I think in the case of Maulana Wahidurin Khan, and why I think that those interviews went very well is that Maulana's purpose, and once again, please correct me if I'm wrong, was the pursuit of truth. That's that's I I I believe Maulano was obsessed with the pursuit of truth. Well, I think in the case of Maulana Wahidurin Khan, and why I think that those interviews went very well is that Maulana's purpose, and once again, please correct me if I'm wrong, was the pursuit of truth. That's that's I I I believe Maulano was obsessed with the pursuit of truth.

17:39 And I mean obsessed in the most neutral sense of the word. And why is someone obsessed with truth? Well, this is this is my personal reflection, and you don't have to agree with me. I think truth points upwards, points to the divine. And I mean obsessed in the most neutral sense of the word. And why is someone obsessed with truth? Well, this is this is my personal reflection, and you don't have to agree with me. I think truth points upwards, points to the divine.

18:06 So knowledge, in the case of Malana, I think that was a tool for him in the pursuit of truth. Hence, understanding the divine, understanding what was the purpose of the creator, what what Malana called the creation plan of god. So knowledge, in the case of Malana, I think that was a tool for him in the pursuit of truth. Hence, understanding the divine, understanding what was the purpose of the creator, what what Malana called the creation plan of god.

18:33 And I don't hesitate to be very personal, and Marlana wrote a lot about and discussed with me during these interviews about the importance of introspection, about reflection. And I don't hesitate to be very personal, and Marlana wrote a lot about and discussed with me during these interviews about the importance of introspection, about reflection.

18:55 And through that processes, growing through purification, And now he never mentioned exactly what is introspection, exactly what is reflection. But I have the good fortune to have two people in my life who are my internal points of reflection. And through that processes, growing through purification, And now he never mentioned exactly what is introspection, exactly what is reflection. But I have the good fortune to have two people in my life who are my internal points of reflection.

19:23 And one is my deceased grandmother, and the other is Maulana. And I meet their faces in portraits every time I every day I enter my study. And this just meeting their faces, remembering the deceased ones is a is a point of reference for me. And one is my deceased grandmother, and the other is Maulana. And I meet their faces in portraits every time I every day I enter my study. And this just meeting their faces, remembering the deceased ones is a is a point of reference for me.

19:52 They they they nudge me. It's like a presence. And I don't know what I don't know what paradise is. I don't know what is. But it's it nudges me onward, corrects me when I'm not on the path of righteousness, and applauds me or smiles at me. They they they nudge me. It's like a presence. And I don't know what I don't know what paradise is. I don't know what is. But it's it nudges me onward, corrects me when I'm not on the path of righteousness, and applauds me or smiles at me.

20:16 My grandmother, in in my own in my own personal psychological experience, Maulana smiles at me when when I'm on the path to righteousness, and he nudges me all. Frowns at me when I'm being less than what I can be. My grandmother, in in my own in my own personal psychological experience, Maulana smiles at me when when I'm on the path to righteousness, and he nudges me all. Frowns at me when I'm being less than what I can be.

20:37 So I think he was right that it is only through the processes of introspection and reflection, therefore, So I think he was right that it is only through the processes of introspection and reflection, therefore,

20:47 growing in purification. growing in purification.

20:57 And I think he's right when these processes are necessary to develop a peaceful personality. And I think he's right when these processes are necessary to develop a peaceful personality.

21:08 And I struggled with his concept of human nature and positivity. I struggled with it when I did my research because I wanted to know exactly what what what did he mean. I wanted to know exactly what did he mean with every concept. And I felt positivity was was the most difficult one for some reason. Now it's now it's totally clear to me. And I struggled with his concept of human nature and positivity. I struggled with it when I did my research because I wanted to know exactly what what what did he mean. I wanted to know exactly what did he mean with every concept. And I felt positivity was was the most difficult one for some reason. Now it's now it's totally clear to me.

21:34 But at the time, I wanted to understand what did it mean with positivity and how it's related to al hadith and the Quran. And I think it's, through these processes of introspection and reflection. And he told he told me every day there's some point of introspection and reflection. But at the time, I wanted to understand what did it mean with positivity and how it's related to al hadith and the Quran. And I think it's, through these processes of introspection and reflection. And he told he told me every day there's some point of introspection and reflection.

22:04 And I asked him, watch. And he said, well, that's my own personal business. I'm between him and god. Okay. And I asked him, watch. And he said, well, that's my own personal business. I'm between him and god. Okay.

22:16 So with those personal experiences, we I would end this the first part about learning the thought of So with those personal experiences, we I would end this the first part about learning the thought of

22:22 Maulana Wahedu in context, and instead, say something about teaching the thought of Maulana Wahedu in Khan in context. Maulana Wahedu in context, and instead, say something about teaching the thought of Maulana Wahedu in Khan in context.

22:28 I'm a university teacher. I'm a university teacher.

22:35 I'm a senior lecturer. I'm a senior lecturer.

22:41 I meet some, well, in total, 300 students every year. I meet some, well, in total, 300 students every year.

22:48 And my my main opportunity to talk about the thought of Malana is in a large class at Lin Sheping University That is called introduction to Islam. So that's a large class every four. I also have another class called introduction to the history of religions. It's very not satisfying. And my my main opportunity to talk about the thought of Malana is in a large class at Lin Sheping University That is called introduction to Islam. So that's a large class every four. I also have another class called introduction to the history of religions. It's very not satisfying.

23:16 It's it's an introduction to Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. So it's all in one. But what's important about that class is that it's a seminal beginner's class and starts the semesters. That is the first thing that students of religion will meet. It's it's an introduction to Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. So it's all in one. But what's important about that class is that it's a seminal beginner's class and starts the semesters. That is the first thing that students of religion will meet.

23:42 And what what I do always during these classes is that we work our way through Islamic history And what what I do always during these classes is that we work our way through Islamic history

23:53 and lexicon, through the times of the prophet Mohammed and the developments in the medieval period, and trying and lexicon, through the times of the prophet Mohammed and the developments in the medieval period, and trying

24:04 to formulate and understand the main challenges of the modern period. to formulate and understand the main challenges of the modern period.

24:15 So by the time we reach the contemporary period, the students know about the central Islamic Arabic lexicon. They know about, the differences between Ibadah and Muamalat. They know about, of course, the the five pillars of Islam. But trying to understand it from from an inside perspective. So by the time we reach the contemporary period, the students know about the central Islamic Arabic lexicon. They know about, the differences between Ibadah and Muamalat. They know about, of course, the the five pillars of Islam. But trying to understand it from from an inside perspective.

24:40 And then when we get to the contemporary period, I can present the thought of Mawlana, Wahidur, and Kaan. And allow them to make the past their own judgment, now they perceived. I should say that this is in in this is called the scientific study of religion. Hence, it is meant to be ideally neutral, ideally objective. And then when we get to the contemporary period, I can present the thought of Mawlana, Wahidur, and Kaan. And allow them to make the past their own judgment, now they perceived. I should say that this is in in this is called the scientific study of religion. Hence, it is meant to be ideally neutral, ideally objective.

25:10 It's a secular science. Strange, A secular science of religion. That's the ideal, and that's the spirit in which I teach Maulana's thought and ideology. And it makes it I think that is also the spirit in which I wrote the book. It's a secular science. Strange, A secular science of religion. That's the ideal, and that's the spirit in which I teach Maulana's thought and ideology. And it makes it I think that is also the spirit in which I wrote the book.

25:33 And in that spirit, I think it makes it less possible to dismiss the t his teachings. Strange enough, Because if I had been a a CPS member, I could my teaching could always have been dismissed. And in that spirit, I think it makes it less possible to dismiss the t his teachings. Strange enough, Because if I had been a a CPS member, I could my teaching could always have been dismissed.

26:02 That is a partisan view. But you can see where my sympathies lie just by highlighting his example when we reach the contemporary period in these large classes of Islamic studies. I also have a lot of well, let me say something about the students groups. First, we have the students in the general study of religion. That is a partisan view. But you can see where my sympathies lie just by highlighting his example when we reach the contemporary period in these large classes of Islamic studies. I also have a lot of well, let me say something about the students groups. First, we have the students in the general study of religion.

26:31 We also have theology students. That's a large section of our students. They are training to become priests in the Protestant Lutheran Church of Sweden. We also have theology students. That's a large section of our students. They are training to become priests in the Protestant Lutheran Church of Sweden.

26:43 And so I think that's a that's a great thing that they are trained in the scientific study of religion, and they meet as priests, as becoming priests in the church of Sweden. They meet the thought of Marlana Wahedruddin Kham. I think that's very important. And so I think that's a that's a great thing that they are trained in the scientific study of religion, and they meet as priests, as becoming priests in the church of Sweden. They meet the thought of Marlana Wahedruddin Kham. I think that's very important.

27:08 The third student category that I meet every year is our teacher students. Now, they are trained in religious education as a school subject, and this needs to be commented. Religious education. The third student category that I meet every year is our teacher students. Now, they are trained in religious education as a school subject, and this needs to be commented. Religious education.

27:34 So that is a part of the high school curriculum in Sweden and in most Scandinavian countries and many European countries. So that is a part of the high school curriculum in Sweden and in most Scandinavian countries and many European countries.

27:43 So the ideal of religious education is to give, an objective information facts about religion, but it's also So the ideal of religious education is to give, an objective information facts about religion, but it's also

27:54 to foster democratic enlightened citizens who are knowledgeable about religions and to minimize religion as a source of to foster democratic enlightened citizens who are knowledgeable about religions and to minimize religion as a source of

28:06 discrimination and hatred among Swedes because Sweden is now an historically unprecedented pluralistic society. discrimination and hatred among Swedes because Sweden is now an historically unprecedented pluralistic society.

28:18 And I will say it's a little more about that. But religious education as a school subject is ideally secular, objective, balanced, is focused on world religions, and comparative religion. So all Swedish students have this as a school subject. And I will say it's a little more about that. But religious education as a school subject is ideally secular, objective, balanced, is focused on world religions, and comparative religion. So all Swedish students have this as a school subject.

28:41 And I'm very proud of the teacher students that I have that I meet each year because they, And I'm very proud of the teacher students that I have that I meet each year because they,

28:48 in turn, meet hundreds of pupils in their every year in their professional lives. in turn, meet hundreds of pupils in their every year in their professional lives.

28:56 And I always try to remember them about the importance of Maulana and as a way to understand And I always try to remember them about the importance of Maulana and as a way to understand

29:04 Islam in the contemporary times. Islam in the contemporary times.

29:12 Now, don't want to exaggerate my own importance in this, But I'm very proud that because I think that that is my contribution to Swedish society. Now, don't want to exaggerate my own importance in this, But I'm very proud that because I think that that is my contribution to Swedish society.

29:28 And indirectly, I I have an effect of the the Swedish school system, and hundreds of Swedish school students pupils, will have some knowledge about Marlana, Wydun, and Khan. And we will see what the long term effects of that will be. Okay. And indirectly, I I have an effect of the the Swedish school system, and hundreds of Swedish school students pupils, will have some knowledge about Marlana, Wydun, and Khan. And we will see what the long term effects of that will be. Okay.

29:55 So just shortly, one quick example. Currently, I have a I'm I'm supervising six master's students, and one of them has he he writes his master's thesis, and and he's becoming a a school teacher. They have five and a half years of training. So just shortly, one quick example. Currently, I have a I'm I'm supervising six master's students, and one of them has he he writes his master's thesis, and and he's becoming a a school teacher. They have five and a half years of training.

30:16 Like I said, they combine their religions education subject with another topic, typically Swedish, typically history or geography. And his master's thesis is about the thought of Malana Wahidruddin Khan in relation to the official religious education curriculum and teacher practice. Like I said, they combine their religions education subject with another topic, typically Swedish, typically history or geography. And his master's thesis is about the thought of Malana Wahidruddin Khan in relation to the official religious education curriculum and teacher practice.

30:40 Because what does objective nuance, multifaceted, and balanced religious education means when school teachers discuss Islam in the Swedish school education? What does it mean? What do teachers in school Swedish schools highlight about Islam? Should they simply avoid Muslim fundamentalism, terrorism? Because what does objective nuance, multifaceted, and balanced religious education means when school teachers discuss Islam in the Swedish school education? What does it mean? What do teachers in school Swedish schools highlight about Islam? Should they simply avoid Muslim fundamentalism, terrorism?

31:06 That's that's a very contentious issue in Swedish society and in Europe. That's that's a very contentious issue in Swedish society and in Europe.

31:11 So what does balance means? So what does balance means?

31:16 What does nuance means? What does nuance means?

31:21 What does multifaceted mean? What does multifaceted mean?

31:26 And in the main objective is that to investigate in what way does teaching Swedish high school students And in the main objective is that to investigate in what way does teaching Swedish high school students

31:31 improve their objective understanding about Islam and also fulfills the mandatory state govern religious education curriculum. Okay. improve their objective understanding about Islam and also fulfills the mandatory state govern religious education curriculum. Okay.

31:37 I will not talk anymore about teaching. I will instead move on to the third part, applying the thought of Marlana Waiver in a context. So I will say just something very brief about Sweden because Sweden has quickly developed from the most homogeneous people in the world. I will not talk anymore about teaching. I will instead move on to the third part, applying the thought of Marlana Waiver in a context. So I will say just something very brief about Sweden because Sweden has quickly developed from the most homogeneous people in the world.

32:03 That was based in the Church of Sweden experience where everyone had their church attendance and and the mass set in Swedish. So 99% of the population in Sweden taught Swedish in 1900. 99% of the population. That was based in the Church of Sweden experience where everyone had their church attendance and and the mass set in Swedish. So 99% of the population in Sweden taught Swedish in 1900. 99% of the population.

32:24 And this has changed in only three decades because Sweden have received the most refugees in relation to its population through asylum migration than any other country in the world ever in in world history. And we don't know what that will mean. Nobody knows. We don't know what the historical trajectory will be. And this has changed in only three decades because Sweden have received the most refugees in relation to its population through asylum migration than any other country in the world ever in in world history. And we don't know what that will mean. Nobody knows. We don't know what the historical trajectory will be.

32:52 So this is comparable to Norway and Denmark, our fellow Scandinavian countries. It is very comparable to the experience of Germany that have received more refugees, mainly from Muslim majority countries. But relative to its population, Sweden have received more refugees. Okay. So this is comparable to Norway and Denmark, our fellow Scandinavian countries. It is very comparable to the experience of Germany that have received more refugees, mainly from Muslim majority countries. But relative to its population, Sweden have received more refugees. Okay.

33:18 Now that is the background to understand something very contentious very contentious, this issue in contemporary Sweden that I would like to spend some time about. So last spring, there was a Danish right wing extremist who does not like immigrants, and he does not like Muslims. Now that is the background to understand something very contentious very contentious, this issue in contemporary Sweden that I would like to spend some time about. So last spring, there was a Danish right wing extremist who does not like immigrants, and he does not like Muslims.

33:40 And he wanted to prove that Muslims are reactive, that Muslims are prone to violence through burning the Quran. And therefore prove that Muslims or Islam is are unable to deal with democracy in modern society. Now this can be compared with situation in India, of course. Okay. And he wanted to prove that Muslims are reactive, that Muslims are prone to violence through burning the Quran. And therefore prove that Muslims or Islam is are unable to deal with democracy in modern society. Now this can be compared with situation in India, of course. Okay.

34:09 I don't want to highlight this man, Rasmus Paladar, the Danish political activist. But it's so obvious to me, just looking at this man, that this is a nobody. This is a nobody. Nobody should care about what he has to say. He he doesn't he didn't even care to to bring a real Quran as a penguin classics edition. So when I heard about this, I thought about Malana. I don't want to highlight this man, Rasmus Paladar, the Danish political activist. But it's so obvious to me, just looking at this man, that this is a nobody. This is a nobody. Nobody should care about what he has to say. He he doesn't he didn't even care to to bring a real Quran as a penguin classics edition. So when I heard about this, I thought about Malana.

34:37 If there is a problem, simply ignore it. What do you think happened? Unfortunately, Muslims in inner city areas raged, and there were there were huge riots in several Swedish cities. If there is a problem, simply ignore it. What do you think happened? Unfortunately, Muslims in inner city areas raged, and there were there were huge riots in several Swedish cities.

34:57 Now we we haven't had a a riot for twenty years when left wing activists, came to, Sweden in 2001 for the World Economic Forum. Now we we haven't had a a riot for twenty years when left wing activists, came to, Sweden in 2001 for the World Economic Forum.

35:11 So these images were broadcasted to every suite, and this reinforced the image of Swedes, of how what how Islam is, what Muslims are like. Now I I would like to say that the police is generally very popular in Sweden. They're they're I I I teach at the police academy. So these images were broadcasted to every suite, and this reinforced the image of Swedes, of how what how Islam is, what Muslims are like. Now I I would like to say that the police is generally very popular in Sweden. They're they're I I I teach at the police academy.

35:41 They're very democratic. They're very friendly. They're not racist. So these images horrified the Swedish public because the activist, the Danish activist, he had sought permission to have that kind of activities. They're very democratic. They're very friendly. They're not racist. So these images horrified the Swedish public because the activist, the Danish activist, he had sought permission to have that kind of activities.

36:05 And the police is forced by law to defend any demonstration with a permit. And the police is forced by law to defend any demonstration with a permit.

36:12 So how to react to the so called Easter riots of two thousand and twenty two? So how to react to the so called Easter riots of two thousand and twenty two?

36:20 Well, it's obvious to me that it was a trap, and that certain Muslims of Sweden took debate, Well, it's obvious to me that it was a trap, and that certain Muslims of Sweden took debate,

36:28 like fish to a hook or birds in a net. like fish to a hook or birds in a net.

36:36 Now one insightful member of the CPS told me in 2016 that Sweden and perhaps myself was too kind to the Muslims. I wasn't sure at the time, but I'm sure this I'm sure this time, and I won't make the same mistake again. I have to say, stupid Muslims. Stupid, stupid. Now one insightful member of the CPS told me in 2016 that Sweden and perhaps myself was too kind to the Muslims. I wasn't sure at the time, but I'm sure this I'm sure this time, and I won't make the same mistake again. I have to say, stupid Muslims. Stupid, stupid.

37:03 Because I felt that my effort as a university teacher to try to deepen the understanding of Islam as something that that may lead to truth, that points to to the divine. That's that's what I said. Because I felt that my effort as a university teacher to try to deepen the understanding of Islam as something that that may lead to truth, that points to to the divine. That's that's what I said.

37:23 And my efforts to create a more harmonious Swedish society, because now we are a pluralist society, And we have to find a way to move together into this future experience, find a way to have unity. And if we do that and cooperate, who knows how good it can get? And my efforts to create a more harmonious Swedish society, because now we are a pluralist society, And we have to find a way to move together into this future experience, find a way to have unity. And if we do that and cooperate, who knows how good it can get?

37:51 But the images that I just show you deeply disturb, the largely immigrant and Muslim friendly Swedish opinion. But the images that I just show you deeply disturb, the largely immigrant and Muslim friendly Swedish opinion.

38:03 If if if the Swedish general public weren't agreeable to immigrants and to the presence of Muslims in our society, we wouldn't have had that huge, mainly Muslim, but also other religious minorities from the Middle East. We wouldn't have all that immigration. If if if the Swedish general public weren't agreeable to immigrants and to the presence of Muslims in our society, we wouldn't have had that huge, mainly Muslim, but also other religious minorities from the Middle East. We wouldn't have all that immigration.

38:24 And that also developed into a political international campaign to smear Sweden in general because and that was directed through Turkey that in Sweden, they allowed they allowed the the burning of the Quran, which is, think, deeply disturbing, of course. But the whole campaign was built on an inability or unwillingness to understand freedom of expression and democracy in Sweden. And that also developed into a political international campaign to smear Sweden in general because and that was directed through Turkey that in Sweden, they allowed they allowed the the burning of the Quran, which is, think, deeply disturbing, of course. But the whole campaign was built on an inability or unwillingness to understand freedom of expression and democracy in Sweden.

38:54 You could burn the bible in Sweden if you like. You could burn a book by Matthias Dartfist, or you could burn a part portrait of the king of Sweden. This is an actual portrait of the king of Sweden by the by a famous art photographer, Fanny. You could burn the bible in Sweden if you like. You could burn a book by Matthias Dartfist, or you could burn a part portrait of the king of Sweden. This is an actual portrait of the king of Sweden by the by a famous art photographer, Fanny.

39:21 And I would like to talk to you a lot more about applying the thought of Malana, Wahedrin, Khan in relation to developments within academia. That is sometimes called and this is a this is a strange word, sometimes called postmodernism. It is called critical theory. That is the last thing that I would like to leave you with. But time flies. And I would like to talk to you a lot more about applying the thought of Malana, Wahedrin, Khan in relation to developments within academia. That is sometimes called and this is a this is a strange word, sometimes called postmodernism. It is called critical theory. That is the last thing that I would like to leave you with. But time flies.

39:51 We need to move on. And I'll I want us to move on to the questions, but I would just like to leave you all with these notions about applying the thought of Malana wider context. We need to move on. And I'll I want us to move on to the questions, but I would just like to leave you all with these notions about applying the thought of Malana wider context.

40:15 So accept his general notion to, if there is a problem, simply ignore it as a message to a reasonable, rational message to the Muslims of Sweden in in that particular context when they were being obviously baited by political activists. We know, because Maulana reminds us from Surah forty one thirty four, good and evil deeds are not equal. Repul evil with what is better. So accept his general notion to, if there is a problem, simply ignore it as a message to a reasonable, rational message to the Muslims of Sweden in in that particular context when they were being obviously baited by political activists. We know, because Maulana reminds us from Surah forty one thirty four, good and evil deeds are not equal. Repul evil with what is better.

40:44 Then you will see what one what one that one who was your enemy has become your dearest friend. In essence, this is positivity. This is what I didn't want to understand in 2013 or 2014 when my mind was too square or rigid. So that is the positive mindset, the positive status quo is in me. And that goes against a negative psychology. Then you will see what one what one that one who was your enemy has become your dearest friend. In essence, this is positivity. This is what I didn't want to understand in 2013 or 2014 when my mind was too square or rigid. So that is the positive mindset, the positive status quo is in me. And that goes against a negative psychology.

41:10 What I didn't want to understand or couldn't understand at the time, what what what did it mean negativity? The negativity leads to hate and violence, and there's no end to it. And the desire for vengeance. So in short, Malana reminds us, one-sided good behavior is immensely persuasive, and it is a god given asset. Now what does that mean? What I didn't want to understand or couldn't understand at the time, what what what did it mean negativity? The negativity leads to hate and violence, and there's no end to it. And the desire for vengeance. So in short, Malana reminds us, one-sided good behavior is immensely persuasive, and it is a god given asset. Now what does that mean?

41:36 Well, from a Muslim perspective, the way I understand Maulana, that means that gentleness have divine blessing, carry divine blessing. But I think it's also rational and true, empirically true. Well, from a Muslim perspective, the way I understand Maulana, that means that gentleness have divine blessing, carry divine blessing. But I think it's also rational and true, empirically true.

41:53 And he also says that in the modern times, in the contemporary times, the the the modern condition And he also says that in the modern times, in the contemporary times, the the the modern condition

41:58 provide endless possibilities for Muslims for nonviolence, for nonviolent action. provide endless possibilities for Muslims for nonviolence, for nonviolent action.

42:04 But not only for Muslims, for everyone. But not only for Muslims, for everyone.

42:10 This we go through darkness. This we go through darkness.

42:15 This is a dark time. This is a dark time.

42:21 There especially for us in Sweden, Northern Europe with the war in Ukraine. There especially for us in Sweden, Northern Europe with the war in Ukraine.

42:27 But this is still the best time to be human, and I'll prove it to you very quickly. If you ever come to Sweden, I would love to show you some of our national monuments. This is the famous Lekker Castle, one of the most famous examples of baroque architecture from the sixteen hundreds in Sweden. Now you're all thinking, okay. But this is still the best time to be human, and I'll prove it to you very quickly. If you ever come to Sweden, I would love to show you some of our national monuments. This is the famous Lekker Castle, one of the most famous examples of baroque architecture from the sixteen hundreds in Sweden. Now you're all thinking, okay.

42:53 That's nothing compared to Tashmohal or the Red Fort. That's that's okay. That's not the point here. If we ever go there, we will find that this was built by the one of the most powerful and rich noble families in the sixteen hundreds. And they have these beds with canopies. Have you seen those beds with drapes around and a roof over? That's nothing compared to Tashmohal or the Red Fort. That's that's okay. That's not the point here. If we ever go there, we will find that this was built by the one of the most powerful and rich noble families in the sixteen hundreds. And they have these beds with canopies. Have you seen those beds with drapes around and a roof over?

43:20 And everyone goes all the romantics in here go, oh, canopy beds. That's that's that's so that's so nice. Do you know why they had cannabis? Canopy beds? Anyone? So the bugs wouldn't bed bugs wouldn't fall from the roof or rats wouldn't climb up in your bed when you sleep. And everyone goes all the romantics in here go, oh, canopy beds. That's that's that's so that's so nice. Do you know why they had cannabis? Canopy beds? Anyone? So the bugs wouldn't bed bugs wouldn't fall from the roof or rats wouldn't climb up in your bed when you sleep.

43:47 So even if you were the richest man in Europe or Sweden, the most powerful belonging to the most powerful family, you would still have to contend with that. You would still have to contend with the water that gives you cholera and the food that gives you dysenteria. So, obviously, the modern period is the best time to be alive, and Marlana reminded us of that. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for your patience. So even if you were the richest man in Europe or Sweden, the most powerful belonging to the most powerful family, you would still have to contend with that. You would still have to contend with the water that gives you cholera and the food that gives you dysenteria. So, obviously, the modern period is the best time to be alive, and Marlana reminded us of that. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for your patience.

44:13 Doctor Matthias, that was really a a wonderful talk. Thank you so much. I would say that I in between, I kept looking back at the audience, and everybody was mesmerized, listening to you very intently. And, also, you know, you sort of brought out some of the very important aspect that Mulana kept emphasizing all his life. Stay positive. Doctor Matthias, that was really a a wonderful talk. Thank you so much. I would say that I in between, I kept looking back at the audience, and everybody was mesmerized, listening to you very intently. And, also, you know, you sort of brought out some of the very important aspect that Mulana kept emphasizing all his life. Stay positive.

44:37 Don't have hate in your heart and the positive positive aspect that one should, you know, imbibe in one's life. So truly thankful. I think it was not just a lecture, doctor Matthias. It was also a tribute, to him. Doctor Matthias, Mulana has been, you know, he's always been a proponent of, interfaith dialogue. Don't have hate in your heart and the positive positive aspect that one should, you know, imbibe in one's life. So truly thankful. I think it was not just a lecture, doctor Matthias. It was also a tribute, to him. Doctor Matthias, Mulana has been, you know, he's always been a proponent of, interfaith dialogue.

45:00 And particularly in the Christian world, he participated in many of the important events globally. One of the thing that we wanted to ask you was that in your opinion, what is the advice that you would give, to the Muslim world And how can, you know, they strengthen the Muslim Christian relations? Right. It's you're asking an academic, and I've already talked so much. And particularly in the Christian world, he participated in many of the important events globally. One of the thing that we wanted to ask you was that in your opinion, what is the advice that you would give, to the Muslim world And how can, you know, they strengthen the Muslim Christian relations? Right. It's you're asking an academic, and I've already talked so much.

45:27 But let me begin by being very scholarly and say, just like Christians have to separate who are the Muslims we're talking about, not homogenize Muslims. All Muslims are the same. Islam is all the same. Muslims are programmed robots by Islam. You know very well that there are differences between Muslims. Just as Christians knows that there are differences between Christians. But let me begin by being very scholarly and say, just like Christians have to separate who are the Muslims we're talking about, not homogenize Muslims. All Muslims are the same. Islam is all the same. Muslims are programmed robots by Islam. You know very well that there are differences between Muslims. Just as Christians knows that there are differences between Christians.

45:52 So the obvious first obvious, answer to your question would be you have to separate, of course, between the main three dimensions of Christianity, Catholics, Protestants, and the Orthodox Church. Now I'm not an expert in in the Orthodox Church in in Russia or the Greek orthodox tradition. So I will talk mainly about the protestant and the catholic church in the world. So the obvious first obvious, answer to your question would be you have to separate, of course, between the main three dimensions of Christianity, Catholics, Protestants, and the Orthodox Church. Now I'm not an expert in in the Orthodox Church in in Russia or the Greek orthodox tradition. So I will talk mainly about the protestant and the catholic church in the world.

46:22 And what you will find is that the northern European protestant churches are very accommodating to Muslims. And they are very interested in Muslim scholars like Malana and, accommodating to Islam. And what you will find is that the northern European protestant churches are very accommodating to Muslims. And they are very interested in Muslim scholars like Malana and, accommodating to Islam.

46:41 That is part of why the countries that I mentioned in Scandinavia, Norway, Denmark, Sweden are generally very, agreeable or friendly towards immigrants and Muslims. Now, when we talk about the Catholic church, there's a huge difference between people at the the general level and the theologians and the bishops and the cardinals of the church. That is part of why the countries that I mentioned in Scandinavia, Norway, Denmark, Sweden are generally very, agreeable or friendly towards immigrants and Muslims. Now, when we talk about the Catholic church, there's a huge difference between people at the the general level and the theologians and the bishops and the cardinals of the church.

47:10 Because the theologians and leaders of the Catholic church, they are based in the theology of the what is called the second Vatican council from the nineteen sixties that created a theological agreement with pluralism, and the idea that wisdom and salvation can be found in other religions except Catholicism. So that is one thing that you have to keep in mind always. Because the theologians and leaders of the Catholic church, they are based in the theology of the what is called the second Vatican council from the nineteen sixties that created a theological agreement with pluralism, and the idea that wisdom and salvation can be found in other religions except Catholicism. So that is one thing that you have to keep in mind always.

47:40 Who am I talking to? Okay. But on a more on a more personal and philosophical level, I would like to say that one problem I have with so I mentioned that we have a large immigrant and Muslim population in Sweden, and that is reflected in, in my classes. And once again, I would like to remind you that that is an example of the endless possibilities that Maulana remember us, remind us of. Who am I talking to? Okay. But on a more on a more personal and philosophical level, I would like to say that one problem I have with so I mentioned that we have a large immigrant and Muslim population in Sweden, and that is reflected in, in my classes. And once again, I would like to remind you that that is an example of the endless possibilities that Maulana remember us, remind us of.

48:09 Hence, Muslims do not have to engage in violent activities of any kind. They are, like everyone else, allowed in the state sponsored free higher university education. So 10 to 15% of my students are Muslims. And we have, like I told you, we have these long classes where I introduce Islamic history leading up to the contemporary times. Hence, Muslims do not have to engage in violent activities of any kind. They are, like everyone else, allowed in the state sponsored free higher university education. So 10 to 15% of my students are Muslims. And we have, like I told you, we have these long classes where I introduce Islamic history leading up to the contemporary times.

48:38 And I always mention that, what what Maulana remind reminded us of, that, there is agreement between earlier revelations and prophets and the revelations of prophet Muhammad. There is agreement. And I always mention that, what what Maulana remind reminded us of, that, there is agreement between earlier revelations and prophets and the revelations of prophet Muhammad. There is agreement.

48:54 So I say that, one basic category of Islam is that we separate between the Nabi, the the prophet, and the Rasulallah, those who brought forth scripture like Moses or Jesus, Islam. So when I say that, the Muslims in my class, they protest and say, no. Only Mohammed was. So I say that, one basic category of Islam is that we separate between the Nabi, the the prophet, and the Rasulallah, those who brought forth scripture like Moses or Jesus, Islam. So when I say that, the Muslims in my class, they protest and say, no. Only Mohammed was.

49:21 I said, no. Okay. Let's do this again. Moses and there are certain number of Quranic scholars, and I don't dare to to say anything about the Quran, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Moses is the most mentioned person in the Quran. And and is so important for for Islam. I said, no. Okay. Let's do this again. Moses and there are certain number of Quranic scholars, and I don't dare to to say anything about the Quran, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Moses is the most mentioned person in the Quran. And and is so important for for Islam.

49:51 And still there is this Muslim perception that, no, it is the prophet Muhammad who matters. So one thing that you can do if you want to engage with Christians is to educate Muslims about this foundation of what we have in in comma. Dawood, David, Musa, Moses, Issa, Jesus, and the prophet Muhammad. And still there is this Muslim perception that, no, it is the prophet Muhammad who matters. So one thing that you can do if you want to engage with Christians is to educate Muslims about this foundation of what we have in in comma. Dawood, David, Musa, Moses, Issa, Jesus, and the prophet Muhammad.

50:19 And I will do my best from my part to say that in what way is the message of the prophet Mohammed in coherence with the message of Moses and Jesus. Then the philosophical part, that is based in my experience as a teacher. The philosophical part would be, and and you don't have to agree with me. No one have to agree with me, by the way. And I will do my best from my part to say that in what way is the message of the prophet Mohammed in coherence with the message of Moses and Jesus. Then the philosophical part, that is based in my experience as a teacher. The philosophical part would be, and and you don't have to agree with me. No one have to agree with me, by the way.

50:46 So in in in Christian theology, the Jesus I mean, you all you all heard the concept. So in in in Christian theology, the Jesus I mean, you all you all heard the concept.

50:50 Jesus is the son of god. Jesus is the son of god.

50:54 But what what is actually there in the Greek text is that Jesus is the incarnation of the But what what is actually there in the Greek text is that Jesus is the incarnation of the

50:59 word of god. word of god.

51:03 In the Greek text, logos, logos. In the Greek text, logos, logos.

51:08 Now, that's a strange concept, logos. Now, that's a strange concept, logos.

51:12 It is related to logic, but it's not the same thing, logos. It is related to logic, but it's not the same thing, logos.

51:17 So, the Christian main idea is that the divine the divine is present in the world. So, what I teach my students is that you cannot compare Jesus and the prophet Muhammad. You must compare Jesus with the word of God, the Quran. So, the Christian main idea is that the divine the divine is present in the world. So, what I teach my students is that you cannot compare Jesus and the prophet Muhammad. You must compare Jesus with the word of God, the Quran.

51:39 That is because that is the way that the transcendent God is present in the world according to Christian doctrine and Muslim doctrine. That is because that is the way that the transcendent God is present in the world according to Christian doctrine and Muslim doctrine.

51:50 And, of course, I would like to add then that that makes that it is actually Mary who can be Maria who can be compared to the prophet Mohammed because Mary is the vessel that brings forth the word of god, the logos into the world. Now in Christian doctrine, she is the virgin. Hence, she could not have affected the logos. And, of course, I would like to add then that that makes that it is actually Mary who can be Maria who can be compared to the prophet Mohammed because Mary is the vessel that brings forth the word of god, the logos into the world. Now in Christian doctrine, she is the virgin. Hence, she could not have affected the logos.

52:16 She has she has not have any effect on bringing the transcendent god into the world. And in Muslim doctrine, the prophet Muhammad was an an alphabet. He couldn't read or write. That means that he could not have affected the revelation. It is not by his own, will or understanding. He has only received it like a vessel. She has she has not have any effect on bringing the transcendent god into the world. And in Muslim doctrine, the prophet Muhammad was an an alphabet. He couldn't read or write. That means that he could not have affected the revelation. It is not by his own, will or understanding. He has only received it like a vessel.

52:46 So that is something that I think that we could be reminded of. But even on an even more philosophical level, I think, actually and and and I think the brilliance of the western civilization is, on the one hand, the agreement that the divine is somehow present in the word in the world, sorry, through the logos. So that is something that I think that we could be reminded of. But even on an even more philosophical level, I think, actually and and and I think the brilliance of the western civilization is, on the one hand, the agreement that the divine is somehow present in the word in the world, sorry, through the logos.

53:16 But there's also something else because the logos is also associated with Greek philosophy. But there's also something else because the logos is also associated with Greek philosophy.

53:24 That is the enlightenment that leads to science and technology, and that is what Malana highlighted. That is the enlightenment that leads to science and technology, and that is what Malana highlighted.

53:33 He wanted to engage with how the word of god is, relevant and a part of logos as He wanted to engage with how the word of god is, relevant and a part of logos as

53:41 enlightenment, argument, rational thinking, critical thinking, science and technology. enlightenment, argument, rational thinking, critical thinking, science and technology.

53:50 So continue to highlight the relationship between the presence of the divine, the potential presence of the divine, the science of the divine in creation. Okay. Thank you. So continue to highlight the relationship between the presence of the divine, the potential presence of the divine, the science of the divine in creation. Okay. Thank you.

54:06 And and and and the rational part of the logos, the the the what that leads to the science and technology. Thank you, doctor Matthias, for that, you know, elaborated answer. We have to move on to the next session, but I quickly ask you two, three more questions. And and and and the rational part of the logos, the the the what that leads to the science and technology. Thank you, doctor Matthias, for that, you know, elaborated answer. We have to move on to the next session, but I quickly ask you two, three more questions.

54:31 There's a follow up question from professor Fareeda Khanam and she has asked that have you have your efforts been successful in making Swedish Muslims to understand better how to live in a pluralistic society with a spirit of tolerance and patience. Not enough. Not enough. Because my but I think it's a slow process. There's a follow up question from professor फरीदा खानम and she has asked that have you have your efforts been successful in making Swedish मुस्लिमs to understand better how to live in a pluralistic society with a spirit of tolerance and patience. Not enough. Not enough. Because my but I think it's a slow process.

54:59 And what is interesting is that I told you about those Muslim students in general in my classes, but there is a large number of Muslim students who seek to become religious education teachers. And what is interesting is that I told you about those Muslim students in general in my classes, but there is a large number of Muslim students who seek to become religious education teachers.

55:16 So I think we have to think about it in in the long term here because I think that those Muslim students who are students today who will in five years and ten years be teachers and therefore be role models. For young, muslim, second and third generation immigrants in Sweden, that is the long term effects. So I think we have to think about it in in the long term here because I think that those Muslim students who are students today who will in five years and ten years be teachers and therefore be role models. For young, muslim, second and third generation immigrants in Sweden, that is the long term effects.

55:44 And I'm thinking a lot about how to do this in a different way, how to climb out of the famous academic ivory tower and not settle in that ivory tower. Well, this is just a thought I'm having. But I'm thinking about starting a YouTube channel. Right. And and and and have lecture series based in my teaching and research. And I'm thinking a lot about how to do this in a different way, how to climb out of the famous academic ivory tower and not settle in that ivory tower. Well, this is just a thought I'm having. But I'm thinking about starting a YouTube channel. Right. And and and and have lecture series based in my teaching and research.

56:11 And my first lecture series would be the thought of Mawlana, Wahidud and Khan. That's what I really would like to do. Inshallah. Inshallah. Yeah. Doctor Matthias, we all witnessed, you know, your emotions, flow of emotions during the talk, especially when you mentioned about, Maulana Vaiduddin Khan. And my first lecture series would be the thought of Mawlana, Wahidud and Khan. That's what I really would like to do. Inshallah. Inshallah. Yeah. Doctor Matthias, we all witnessed, you know, your emotions, flow of emotions during the talk, especially when you mentioned about, Maulana Vaiduddin Khan.

56:32 So I wanted to know if there is any particular experience, any example that you would like to share during your interactions with, Maulana, during your research period. That that is I would like to exaggerate again that engaging with Molana was gripping. So I wanted to know if there is any particular experience, any example that you would like to share during your interactions with, Maulana, during your research period. That that is I would like to exaggerate again that engaging with Molana was gripping.

56:53 It excited me, and I believe that he, his entire life, was thinking about these issues. And I think that, why it was gripping to me was that he was actually logical. He actually had answers to my question because he had actually thought them through. It excited me, and I believe that he, his entire life, was thinking about these issues. And I think that, why it was gripping to me was that he was actually logical. He actually had answers to my question because he had actually thought them through.

57:14 And as a person who has spent countless sleep sleepless nights figuring things out or waking up in the middle of the night thinking about something, okay, I can being in part of a debate or an argument. That was something that I appreciated very much. And he had somehow found contentment, I think, in reaching his basic conclusions. And as a person who has spent countless sleep sleepless nights figuring things out or waking up in the middle of the night thinking about something, okay, I can being in part of a debate or an argument. That was something that I appreciated very much. And he had somehow found contentment, I think, in reaching his basic conclusions.

57:35 And that is something that I I understand now that I'm growing older, that that is something that I that I'm finding more and more as well. And once again, why is was is is logic and IDs gripping? Why does it move someone? Well, I think that it points upwards. And that is something that I I understand now that I'm growing older, that that is something that I that I'm finding more and more as well. And once again, why is was is is logic and IDs gripping? Why does it move someone? Well, I think that it points upwards.

58:00 Logic and IDs can turn us to truth, and that is an aspect of the divine. Now there are many aspects of the divine. Love, beauty, fairness, righteousness, justice, of course. But one aspect is also truth, and I think that is a a a psychological dimension of how how people are differently wired. Logic and IDs can turn us to truth, and that is an aspect of the divine. Now there are many aspects of the divine. Love, beauty, fairness, righteousness, justice, of course. But one aspect is also truth, and I think that is a a a psychological dimension of how how people are differently wired.

58:28 Some people are just oriented towards IDs and logic, and those people will be inclined towards the IDs of Molano. Thank you, doctor Matthias. One last quick question. All right. Any message that you would like to give to all the CPS members were spread all over the world? Some people are just oriented towards IDs and logic, and those people will be inclined towards the IDs of Molano. Thank you, doctor Matthias. One last quick question. All right. Any message that you would like to give to all the CPS members were spread all over the world?

58:50 That would be the what what I would if if if if I had the ability to torture you more and have my full three hour lectures that I usually give my students, that would be to well, there there is an academic, trend, especially in The US, and it's it's a part of something that is called postmodernism. That would be the what what I would if if if if I had the ability to torture you more and have my full three hour lectures that I usually give my students, that would be to well, there there is an academic, trend, especially in The US, and it's it's a part of something that is called postmodernism.

59:13 And postmodernism is a nineteen sixties French radical philosophy that challenges all knowledge, that challenges all concepts, and says that there is no such thing as knowledge. There is no such thing as an objective position, and they are very critical against Western civilization. And postmodernism is a nineteen sixties French radical philosophy that challenges all knowledge, that challenges all concepts, and says that there is no such thing as knowledge. There is no such thing as an objective position, and they are very critical against Western civilization.

59:33 Everything is due to colonialism and the white man's oppression of everyone else, especially categories like women, everyone who is nonvite, including Muslims. And that is a basis for violence because it's based on essentially Lenin, Vladimir Lenin, the the founder of the Soviet Union. That is based on his philosophy and ideology. Everything is due to colonialism and the white man's oppression of everyone else, especially categories like women, everyone who is nonvite, including Muslims. And that is a basis for violence because it's based on essentially Lenin, Vladimir Lenin, the the founder of the Soviet Union. That is based on his philosophy and ideology.

1:00:02 And you you will, especially in The US, you will encounter this philosophy. And don't be dismayed by it. Don't be dismayed by it. Don't be convinced by the relativist positions. Remember what, the the ideology of Malana who highlighted the importance of science and and the contribution of the western civilization in the fields of science and technology. And you you will, especially in The US, you will encounter this philosophy. And don't be dismayed by it. Don't be dismayed by it. Don't be convinced by the relativist positions. Remember what, the the ideology of Malana who highlighted the importance of science and and the contribution of the western civilization in the fields of science and technology.

1:00:30 He always said he he had this very humble way of describing people in his life. He always said he he had this very humble way of describing people in his life.

1:00:34 When when he introduced some of the people of CPS, he said, they are my teachers. When when he introduced some of the people of CPS, he said, they are my teachers.

1:00:39 This is this is my teacher. This is this is my teacher.

1:00:43 I would like you to meet so and so. I would like you to meet so and so.

1:00:48 This is my teacher. This is my teacher.

1:00:52 And he also had that idea about British colonialism that was he said that, okay, the British civilization And he also had that idea about British colonialism that was he said that, okay, the British civilization

1:00:57 had something to teach. had something to teach.

1:01:02 But the but the idea about post postmodernism, and sometimes it's called also critical race theory and postmodernism, But the but the idea about post postmodernism, and sometimes it's called also critical race theory and postmodernism,

1:01:07 is the idea that anything that is bad in the world is due to western civilization, the patriarchy, is the idea that anything that is bad in the world is due to western civilization, the patriarchy,

1:01:12 and the tyranny of the white man in relation to everyone else. and the tyranny of the white man in relation to everyone else.

1:01:17 And there's nothing good about western civilization. And there's nothing good about western civilization.

1:01:22 And I think that's wrong. And I think that's wrong.

1:01:27 I think it's dead wrong, and I think it's dangerous. I think it's dead wrong, and I think it's dangerous.

1:01:33 So when you, from a Muslim Islamic perspective, encounter these IDs, remember that science does not belong to anyone, and it is it is an equal part of can be an equal part of Islam just as it is with western civilization. So when you, from a Muslim Islamic perspective, encounter these IDs, remember that science does not belong to anyone, and it is it is an equal part of can be an equal part of Islam just as it is with western civilization.

1:01:59 And, once again, don't be afraid. Always stand up to be in, Muslim and to point to the divide. So you have a have a way to the divine through your religion and through the thought of Maulana. So never hesitate, and never hesitate to be positive. And, once again, don't be afraid. Always stand up to be in, Muslim and to point to the divide. So you have a have a way to the divine through your religion and through the thought of Maulana. So never hesitate, and never hesitate to be positive.

1:02:29 Never give in to to the hate and fear in the world, the darkness of the world, the dark times that we're going through now. Doctor. Matthias, on behalf of CPS family, our heartfelt thanks to you on making a long journey from Sweden to India on this important day. We are truly grateful. Thank you. And we won't let you go like this. We would like to honor you with the CPS certificate. Never give in to to the hate and fear in the world, the darkness of the world, the dark times that we're going through now. Doctor. Matthias, on behalf of CPS family, our heartfelt thanks to you on making a long journey from Sweden to India on this important day. We are truly grateful. Thank you. And we won't let you go like this. We would like to honor you with the CPS certificate.

1:02:54 And I would request doctor Sanya Snin Khan and professor Farida Khanam to come on to stage to honor you on with the certificate. Thank you. I'd like to read once mail of the certificate. And I would request doctor Sanya Snin Khan and professor Farida Khanam to come on to stage to honor you on with the certificate. Thank you. I'd like to read once mail of the certificate.

1:03:11 It says the CPS certificate is presented to doctor Matthias Bartels, student for delivering a talk at the It says the CPS certificate is presented to doctor Matthias Bartels, student for delivering a talk at the

1:03:35 CPS International Peace Conference on April 2023 at New Delhi and an appreciation of his efforts towards peace, CPS International Peace Conference on April 2023 at New Delhi and an appreciation of his efforts towards peace,

1:04:00 dialogue, unity and mutual support. dialogue, unity and mutual support.

1:04:25 Thank you, doctor. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, doctor. Thank you. Thank you so much.